What size would be good for average 15 mph? 4.5 v2 maybe? I ride a tray board with lift 90 ha… that thing is fun, but would be even better with a hybrid i guess if i could loop it to start !
Much different than peaks?
What size swell are you riding, ours is all wind driven here in florida gulf stuff.
Used to love kite foiling in the waves with my FS peaks. Does the hybrid drift even better than the peak?
Switched to Wingfoiling and never looked back, and now parawing is the best of both worlds
I think the Peak is unbeatable in terms of drift, but because you’d pay a hefty price if you screw up, you tend to not push it to the max of its capabilities, whereas a Hybrid would allow a bit more of a carefree reckless attitude when riding leading to a more radical wave riding.
I think I ride quite conservatively on the Peaks, maybe too conservatively, and that could be a limiting factor in terms of progression. I haven’t tried the Hybrids though, I always liked the multipurpose aspect of the Peaks, for snowkite, buggy, and foil. Wingfoil/Pwing seems to get more of my attention once it’s over 15kts with bumps, so switching to hybrids isn’t really on my radar for now.
I’d guess 15 mph is in the sweet spot of the 6m. The Hybrid isn’t as powerful as the Peaks, but the v2 is better than the v1. I’ve started the v2 down to 11-12 mph with 27m lines and an efficient foil, but you have to work it. Actually gets you up better flying in 8s than loops.
I actually think the Hybrid drifts better because it’s lower aspect and has a bulkier leading edge than the Peak. Weight of 4m Peak is 0,64 kg and 4,5 Hybrid 0,74 kg, so that’s almost identical per m2, the v1 was even a bit lighter. But the big difference is that slacking the lines isn’t a problem, it’s almost a goal! The Hybrid just retains it’s shape and drifts where the Peak would collapse.
I use them from knee high swell to the biggest overhead waves we get. I see many advantages compared to winging and parawinging; the extremely light and small setup for travel, small board, the ability to ride small foils, overall higher speed and doing aggressive top and bottom turns in mediocre conditions where the wingers/wangers would need a big foil and are more busy pumping than turning. Overall it’s also so easy that I can catch more waves per hour and also ride for far longer. That said I’ll also parawing when it’s good, but I’d never bother with handling a wing again.
Good stuff, Have you ever tried an alma or marabou kite? Looks similar in design .
https://youtu.be/Sx4UFdJNf3k?si=Y-VXLFj7OTvVk9Q_
Exactly my thoughts ..will never buy a wing again…still have my original fone swings from 5 years ago, still the best ones
I haven’t, but from the design I’d think that they are better for general freeride and worse for wave riding. My thinking is that their weight and higher AR will likely impair drift significantly.
Edit: Watching the video with the Marabou 2 that’s completely different to what I’m talking about. He is kiting in the waves, not surfing the waves. The kite seems to collapse when he goes to much downwind, which confirms my suspicions. I’ve unfortunately not seen any good videos or marketing from Flysurfer showcasing the Hybrids wave riding capabilities.
Stoked to hear people are still enjoying their Peaks and Hybrids out there. At the time it was the closest I felt I could get to pure surfing with a wind powered assist. I would always ride my regular foil setup and the smallest kite possible. In light winds that often meant 3 or 4 down loops before you could get on foil. Such a fun and technical discipline. Every now and then when the wind is light or the shore pound is bad I do wish I still had atleast one Peak left…
Are the original brm cloud e3 kites still any good for foil/surfing?
Peaks are better then the BRM clouds IMO
I don’t think I’ve ever seen any compelling down the line kitefoil wave riding. Perhaps it’s not really possible? In my experience even wave kites just don’t drift well and you end up slacking the lines. Really sketchy.
Luckily wave kites can relaunch if they get dropped in a wave. There’s no way that hybrid kite isn’t going to tie itself in a knot the first wave that hits it.
I’m sure for swell riding these things are sweet, but breaking waves in a cross wind when you’re hauling ass at your kite? Haven’t really seen it…
I would never even think about wave foiling with a wave tube kite again, that would suck massively. Tube kites force you to “kite” on the wave, whereas the Hybrid lets you surf freely. It’s like another sport. Neither I have seen any good marketing or online videos showing the Hybrids wave riding capabilities - Flysurfer is really not good at marketing (for comparison, how can their big air kite have #1, #2, #8 and #9 on the Woo all time scoreboard but still no hype at all?). Thus I can see you are sceptical - but riding it is just amazing!
There is no kite I feel more safe with either; it’s by far the easiest kite to keep in the air and for the rare cases I’ve dropped it, it’s extremely easy and quick to relaunch. I’ve dropped it in breaking waves once or twice, which have made me nervous, but it seems to float above the waves in some weird way. Really, safety is not a problem with these kites.
Is kite foiling still any fun? um yeah, its still a blast. Obviously a lot depends on where you are. Round here (great lakes) there is NO wave without wind so many of the things that are developing elsewhere are not very viable here. There are a couple of prone and parawing guys I’ve watched and chatted with on big days and I hear there are a few interested in DW, but in our part of the world, there is no energy in the water when there is no energy in the air. Wingers are definitely growing in numbers, but they spend virtually no time drifting the wing. I’ve seen it look pretty good on big days. The days that get the windsurfers and longboard surfers out, but in all honesty, I’m on a 3m kite with 11m lines those days and having the time of my life literally choosing NOT to ride circles around the wingers. On the last really big day I watched two dudes with all kinds of up to date gear ( 4 full AFS foil set ups 3 boards and the latest BRM parawings) getting just down right frothy on land while rigging explaining all the freedom and advantages to me. I watched them for over a half hour and they amassed a grand total of about 7 min on foil and zero seconds with the wing stowed. Proceeded to launch and spent the next 2 hours completely on foil, approximately 1/2 of it drifting the kite on waves faces too steep for anyone else to dare. Getting up on foil is generally a 1 second maneuver for me. That alone is a HUGE advantage over other disciplines. Having a tiny little Peak at the end of short lines is sooooo much nicer than a wing or parafoil in your face. Fly by wire is so good on Peak and hybrid kites its not even comparable to using LEI or traditional double skin foil kites for foiling. I foil virtually 95% of the time one handed. A major plus over winging. Most of the people I see talking about how awful it is to try and ride waves with a kite A) have never used single skin kites, B) don’t spend any time drifting their wing while winging! My favorite, 4m Peak weighs about 500g bridle and all. Considering I use it in 15-20 knots of wind, it drifts pretty darn well. I spend more time foiling with zero wind power than any of the wingers by a very large margin. In fact my riding angles are nearly perpendicular to the cross wind lines of most traffic. Everyone loves something new, but it’s a case of horses for courses. My standard line to anyone asking why I still use a kite, is simply that I love kites and they are a blast to fly. Single handed high dexterity control of essentially a non battery powered drone up there willing and waiting to take you wherever you want to go and then just shadow you back downwind ready to add a bump of power here and there to get you around or connect sections….. The stuff daydreams are made of! Lastly, If I’m honest. None of the foillers I’ve watched in our region are accomplished enough to ride in the more critical section of our waves. It’s too close to shore and shallow for them to risk getting tumbled and would be very difficult for them to get up and going again after a fall. That leaves vast stretches of the best terrain empty. Kites may have their draw backs, but generally nothing that cant be overcome by those willing to learn.
As someone who downwinds Lake Erie, I have to disagree. With a paddle you dont need the wind to blow durring the run, just some waves left over from previous wind. Ive done some downwinders in 1-2kts of wind. These are generally are more of a challange than fun surfing but there is something absolutely addictive about being a few miles offshore with only a paddle in your hand. Days like this there’s is no way you could ride anyting wind powered: https://youtube.com/shorts/Eltw9cSWdk8?si=quj3OKUcvm0gQwVq
That said, in flat water I would much rather mow the lawn on a kitefoil than a wing.
I don’t doubt you brother. There is no wind in that clip and the foiling would be pretty cardio intensive no doubt. So my absolute of saying there is NO energy in the water without energy in the air needs an * I guess! Lets agree that there are no tides of consequence and no ground swell in fresh water and that waves are short lived once the wind subsides. DW is super cool, but for everyone but the intrepid tip of the spear like yourself, your going to find it a lonely sport on Erie unless you can enlist a few other moderately crazy* people to ride share. What looks so viable in ocean swell and parts of the Columbia river, is no more viable that surfing is around here. People insist on doing it, but surfing in the great lakes is kinda like mountain biking in Saskatchewan. DW in the great lakes is no doubt possible, but it veers to the dockstart end of the foiling spectrum, pretty far away from the surfing end. Good on you man, and as someone who has been foiling alone for the better part of the last decade, I truly mean that. I wish you big linkable Erie swell to daydream of!
Lake Ontario (PS:I that’s by buddy, not me, I’m not that talented)
Plenty of downwind and foil surfing to do.
Just need 15 knots or more.
Obviously epic when it’s 30+knots
I appreciate ya!
Since ive started downwinding ive been very shocked at the minimum wind needed to have a killer session. With moderate wind we get stacked bumps possible to ride with little to no pumping.
I’ll also say I’ve prone surfed all over the world (maui, portugal, california, maine, obx, norway), and prone sessions in freshwater are comparable fun-wise. If you can find a point break (where waves refract into shore) the short period windswell is like a skatepark.
If you’re ever around Sandbanks on a West WSW, it wraps around the point and breaks over 3-4km of even limestone shelf bottom.
Waves that go on for ever.
Might be worth a trip! Ive downwinded western Ontario on E wind a few times, but eastern Erie works really well on WSW.
Id love to send my local DW run (13miles) on a prone board, but falling 1.5 miles offshore seems daunting.
Erie is awesome.
I did a Long Beach to Sherkston a couple of years back. But was not geared properly, had to use the wing to assist a lot on that one.
Some pretty impressive uninterrupted lake based foiling there!! Very impressive. I look forward to more foilers out there and applaud your skill and determination. I clearly understand the draw of just having a paddle or unencumbered wave riding and working with nothing but wave power to sustain. All of it is great to watch evolve and certainly has lots of you stoked. I simply find those little Peaks super fun to fly and like em almost as much as I like the comparatively small foil and board they allow me to use on the regular. The cooperative interaction between a small single skin kite and foil is pretty darn satisfying. I find people speak like the kite was always some necessary evil they used to put up with in order to foil, as the thread title would suggest. I kinda like what the kite has evolved into and don’t really wanna foil without it. Once spoiled by the dexterity of it all it’s hard to go back to bigger boards, bigger foils, low power production that’s quite a bit more in your face or be restricted to downwind travel. The right kind of kites……they are super fun and it’s a tight little package that I doubt I’ll ever get bored with.
