Context - prone, small short period east coast(I know this short period is meaningful in this dicussion). Clydesdale rider.
So I’ve recently been riding a 80cm mast and im amazed the impact to my low end on smaller days. Even if bottoming out the mast on the ground isn’t the issue there’s definately something with the mast being farther(deeper) from the wave energy where it takes many more pumps to get the foil engaged and onto foil than a 75 or a 70 cm mast. To the point that it impacts my pump because i’m starting the wave significantly more gassed than i would on a smaller mast.
I’m even starting to feel that, in terms of catching a wave and getting on foil(this obviously wouldn’t hold for straight line pump) that a size shorter mast might have more impact than a size bigger wing. (Might be better off with a 140 and a 75 than a 170 on a 80). It really makes me think about that relationhip between Front wing span and mast length in terms of “ripability” of a setup. I used to LOVE my “mini foil” (70 cm mast , 815 mm span, 1000 Sqcm area) on good prone days (pumping was a bitch but catching small waves was better than my current Prog 170/80cm) and was actually a riot on the wing.
Also, for my riding and our breaks, i really miss the No Paddle - Standing - Push and Go technique which i just can’t do on the 80. (was dooable on a 75 and a shorebreak cheat code on the 70 - Pop up in the shorebreak and pump around while your buddies are paddling out the the bar!).
And i think this is part of the reason for the midlength prone thing. For me, i shaped a bigger, floatier prone board as soon as i got the 80 because i needed to keep the foil off the ground a little more. It had the added benefit of getting the foil a hair higher in the water column, a little closer to the energy, etc. I think this is what alot of people are feeling and aren’t really able to articulate - paddle power and shape nuance are how we want to explain these things when really its always been all about the foil.
Finally, i would say this discussion is HIGHLY dependent on where i ride. I think we’re making a mistake in trying to apply gear from radically different spots to our home break.
Definitely agree on the efficiency benefits of shorter masts, but I just can’t get the bank angles I like on a 75. It limits carving. I would actually ride an 85 for optimal angles but then flex and delay get in the way. 75 is also amazing if you want to smash foam, just lets you have so much more control and easy release.
The pop up benefits are why a lot of dw guys prefer 75 as well. You get the foil into energy earlier with less drag.
Yeah but I feel like everything I’m gaining on mast bank angle I loose with the bigger wing I’ve got to be riding to get that tall mast to work. I will say I’m dealing with a step down in energy compared to the Jax area(I’m in SC) so it’s kind of apples and oranges
Nah, it’s BETTER having shallower, washier, mushier energy. It’s dreamy! Better inlets, better winging. Everything is incrementally easier! When I go on a trip to Jax it’s always humbling! Too much paddling, bigger more critical bar farther out, too much beach, too much walking….just too much!
I notice the exact same in short period swell here in TX. Its like the longer period carry energy much deeper, which I normally atribute to swell height and not period.
Generally if you are on an 80 mast, you are married to the 3rd sand bar out to paddle in. With a 75, you can use the 2nd some times at high tide.
Its crossed my my to cut down an aluminum mast to 70 so its useable more often
I ride long period swell and appreciate the safety margin of an 80cm mast over a 75, especially riding an HA wing. Going to 85 was just too much drag and slowed down everything. My noodle Takuma t-mast worked fine at 75 cm with a 980 or 1300, but as I started pushing the 1075 the flex became noticeable… so for sure heavier rider needs more stiffness with longer wing and longer mast. On the really small days, I just use a bigger board for more float and paddle power and that also helps in jumping up earlier to get the foil in the power zone. The GoFoil set has also proven to be incredibly resistant to bouncing on the reef, so for me no need to jump on the latest and greatest. Code is getting all the internet buzz lately and if I were to use their gear I’d probably look into a different brand mast so I could stay at the 180 length that I’m so used to for different foiling applications. Interestly, since switching I haven’t fallen on my foil. Not sure if length has anything to do with that, or the gear is just better.
My home spot in NJ has very shallow sand bars with closeouts and short period swell, I’m starting to think my larger mast is hindering me.
I am currently on 830 Katana w/ P140. I can still catch just about anything on a 4’2 prone board.
I got the larger mast to prevent breaching and be able to lay over in turns more. But I find myself ridding so high up on the mast, the the foil probably breaches the same amount. When I go to do aggressive turns, I have to sink the foil a little to prevent instant tip breaches. Sinking the foil adds drag and a greater delay making it harder to roll back over. I’m stuck doing big drawn out power turns on 2ft waves. I’m also starting to notice the flex causing instability in turns.
I’m thinking I need a smaller mast.
Less weight, more control/stiffer, less work to get foil near surface, added DW help
On super low tide days, I ride a 7’ dw SUP. I can takeoff well before the sandbar. the SUP take offs feel effortless compared to paddling into a micro wave on a prone board. Saves my back.
If anyone is selling an 750 mast or p125 for sale, let me know.
my current “local” spot ive found for prone foiling is just the first bank out, and its only foilable during a limited window, i really have been wishing i have a shorter mast, code doesnt make anything under 75, so that would be something custom for nolimitz. i like the idea of 70, but that really only gives me an additional ~15 minutes of window for the tide to rise or drop 5cm. even a 65, would give me at most 30 minutes more. alot to think about, but many trade offs