I get that everyone wants the forum to be free, which I agree with for sharing ideas and community. But paying a small fee if you’re using the forum to sell gear seems completely fair to me. Why this would help control scammers, at least according to my good friend Claude, is that they have to add a credit card. And most won’t want to do that.
I could see user ratings going the wrong way but I’ll look into it.
Regarding using the forum for self promotion, I used to monitor that more strictly and send warnings. I may go back to that. I personally don’t promote Uni or portal on forum so I’m playing by the old rules. Everyone wants to promote but not pay for a banner ad….
I would pay to post adds($20/year) but can we also find a way to also disable commenting on buy sell posts(newbs who can’t DM posting their phone number as scammer boat) and give people a way to mark a listing as sold without blowing it up in the feed? I feel like someone will comment “is it sold?” Then the OP comments sold and it’s in the top of the feed for an eternity.
Have you run the math on this? How many unique sellers are there per year?
It looks like there have been about 105 unique sellers in the last 30 days alone. At $25 each, that’s $2,625 in just the first month. Over a full year, that potentially becomes a substantial revenue stream that could far exceed the stated $2,000 annual operating cost.
A flat fee won’t actually stop a scammer from listing a fake foil setup, provides us with no insurance on the sale, and it risks creating a false perception of security for buyers while driving casual community members over to free Facebook groups. Instead of charging forum users to try and deter scammers I would much rather see a comprehensive “how to avoid being scammed” thread pinned to the top of the forum.
If the ultimate goal is to generate revenue to cover the forum’s overhead, I don’t think that financial burden should fall on individual riders trying to pass along gear they are already likely taking a loss on. The for profit entities, brands, and shops that use this forum to promote products, run marketing, acquire customers, and attract followers are the ones extracting real business value here. I’m struggling to understand how billing casual users but issuing warnings to these other entities makes sense. Collecting $2,000 from professional accounts seems like a very small price to pay for the value they’re getting from the forum.
The more I think about it this isn’t a problem - at least not for me…. I buy and sell here constantly - mostly from well established members (the great friends across the country and world who helped each other invent this sport over the last 8 years)
I’m ok with newb getting scammed or maybe just doing the dirty on FB marketplace/local like we all did before the rest of us built this whole community. I would guess that 99% of victims are new to the forum/sport and need to build up some clout through successful BUYER interactions before selling or make IRL friends with someone who has clout and get them to do the dirty - I do it for friends all the time!
Don’t tax the core community to solve a problem for newbs who are already riding our coat tails and standing on the shoulders of giants in every aspect of the sport.
The safety comes from having to utilize an electronic payment method(traceable) to make the payment. Scammers don’t want to use those payment systems. You can block prepaid credits cards depending on the processing merchant, forcing legitimate identification to be used. This actually sounds like a great method.
If the income is roughly the amount you stated, but is a one time flat fee, the surplus could be used toward future years of hosting and management. The initial boost of payments would slow to a trickle once regular users signed up.
Its surprising that Erik has foot the bill this far without turning on the banners etc to cover the costs.
Just to state my opinion openly here. I’m very very anti fee. The reason the forums work is because they’re free.
The reason the forums are useful is because the shops post here. If you drive away the shops/designers then why would anyone come here?
I’ve been part of lots of forums for niche sports. When you make the manufacturers/business people (@Dylan etc) leave, your left with me and @TooMuchEpoxy and nobody new comes around.
Don’t tax the rich to pay for the poor. Don’t tax the poor and make them unionize. Forums don’t make money. They are my favorite place on the internet though. Paying a one time fee will not stop scammers. They’ll use a stolen credit card number and bypass anything you setup. I’m on a “one time fee” set of forums, scammers there all the time. One of their money making strategies is you can buy a banner ad, a picture of you riding would work well. They also charge for custom titles below your username (you can buy these for other users hint hint)
The forum is not responsible for third party transactions. Get more mods. Stop using ai. People making transactions need to have conversations with the other party. If the person isn’t stoked on foiling and it shows. Maybe don’t make that transaction. It’s the internet. You’ll never stop scammers.
If you want a direct foiling example. LAFC WhatsApp group tried to go from WhatsApp to discord. It failed horribly. Then back to WhatsApp and they started charging every shop to pay $20 a month to advertise and if they didn’t pay, the posts would get deleted. I eventually got so fed up and there was nothing useful in that group anymore i left it. What was once a great group of individuals became a horrible resource. Don’t charge a fee.
I see no scam protection from fees. Fraud is far more complex than that.
If the forum needs money, absolutely must collect fees, I just want to see it come from pros before anyone else. But, I agree with you, every time I’ve seen mods get involved and start charging fees thats the end of the platform.
This.
Real, engaged, moderation needs to happen. Accounts shouldn’t be left greyed out for prolonged periods. I don’t think I’ve ever received a response when flagging a post. Gave up on that years ago.
I have sold lots of gear on here. And bought some. I have always gotten the buyer to FaceTime me. It’s seems pretty easy to avoid. My account has been faked before, and I just tell everyone to make sure you get on an FaceTime or what’s app call with me. Show the product, show face. That’s very hard to fake with AI.
Buyers need to be more aware. And if that stunts someone from selling something, sellers need to be more open and willing to make the transaction legit because people should be weary of scams. It’s totally legit to want all this confirmation
If I was scammed, It would be my fault. Not the scammers or the forum unfortunately
I was trying to buy foils from someone on line , and I could tell they were bogus … no matter what you need this guy had it for sale … he could not tell me what gear he rode etc … He is an active member on the forum … There should be some way to report suspicious activity
This won’t mean much to a lot of you. But if you ever used standupzone, here is a post from a guy that was a longtime user there. It’s an example of what happens when you try to monetize a forum. Check the last few posts from stoneaxe. (sometimes I feel I need to reference my opinions since no one likes to listen to me)
Just read that thread. There’s a difference between charging 600 bucks a year to post if you’re affiliated with a brand vs. 30 bucks a year to use the forum to sell your gear…. Not saying that’s where we’ll land but it’s not a fair comparison.
I’d be fine with 20 bucks a year, but why not just advise buyers and sellers to have a phone conversation before transaction? Scammers either won’t do it or it’s painfully obvious they are scammers if they do.
A fee might be a good idea. if someone can come up with a system for vouching for buyers/ sellers, maybe a seller rating like ebay. I joined this site a month ago, made 3 purchases and all the sellers were communicative and shipped promptly. Had a great experience so far.
on a base community level “Legit Check” is something I’ve learned buying stuff off face book groups and have done here. In a lot of Fbook groups outside of foiling, people will ask “Legit check on (insert name here)”. basically meaning “who can verify this buyer / seller is legit?”. This is a small community and everyone knows someone who knows someone. (obviously if they have random accounts with no activity vouching for them don’t make a sale). If someone respected in the community knows them or guys who’ve bought and sold a lot of gear of made deals with them, they’re probably legit.
I’m in jersey A few months back I traded foils with a forum member in FL with no real posts or activity on here, I asked if they could get anyone to verify and sure enough we have a handful of mutual friends chime in on the forum and via whatsapp, peace of mind that easy. all went smooth, just a regular foil addict who’s not on the computer a lot.
If you’re unsure of a buyer / seller, just ask on the forum chances are someone will know them, and if they don’t those are your dice to roll, but I know what I’d do. the community is so small Between the forum and the countless whatsapp groups around the world, everyone is connected in one way or another and can get someone to vouch for them before a sale.
I’m surprised this is a problem. Just FaceTime with the seller, to “inspect” gear and assess if the seller is actually someone that would own the gear.
