May be replacing my Cabrina Mantis wings soon, they are going on 3 and 4 years old, they are still kicking and working well. I really like to wing with the smallest wings possible for wave riding and flagging, which the mantis allow me to do. They are really grunty wings but lack the high end.
My question is, I am I missing out on running bigger wings which lack low end gruntiness but offer much higher end. I always thought it was best for wave riding and winging to run the smallest wing possible, but from reading other posts it seems like many like riding bigger wings that have higher ends.
Any thoughts?
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Generally, I agree that you want the smallest gruntiest wing for dedicated wave riding. The exception is if you are having to compensate by riding a bigger foil than the conditions necessitate. My guess is that the power of Lake Michigan conditions don’t necessitate a small and fast foil, so the smaller gruntier wing is probably right for those conditions, but without firsthand experience maybe I’m wrong.
The Ozone Flow is a really nice wing with good low end grunt. I had the older vintage Mantis wings too, and they were great at the time, but I think you will be surprised with the performance of the newer equipment.
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that is a great point on wave speed and size. I usually have to run a bigger foil because our waves are smaller and weaker. When the waves get head high with more power I usually drop to a smaller foil but the wind is also nuking so I am on a small wing. We really don’t get big waves with no wind, it does happen but not often.
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I think your missing the third part of the equation which is the board. The narrow mid lengths don’t require as much power to get started which can allow you to run a smaller foil and wing. I downsized to a 48l Omen Flux and I pretty much only ride my Progression 125 now. But at 195lbs its pretty much a full on sinker so very interested to see which wings are recommended. I have to resort to my 8m CWC for 10-15 because of my board choice as I need the grunt to get it to the surface. In 15+ I am really happy on my 5.5 Strike V3. It definitely lacks low end, but what you gain is the best upwind ability of any wing that I have tried. I tired a recent Ozone wing that was also great upwind but it had a terrible floppy flag handle.
So to more directly answer your question, low end grunt is great. But if you value upwind angles the higher end wings can be worth it. They also jump well as you can ride a larger wing in higher winds. But coming from a kite background wing jumps are really not a big driver as they don’t compare. I mostly ride strapless.
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I also ride an Omen Flux, but a 60ltr version, being in fresh water and lighter winds it seems to work really well. I am 175 lbs. I have a 6m, 4m, and 3 m mantis. I use the 6m from 10 to 15 knots, the 4m in 13 to 20 knots and my 3 from 20 to 30 knots. I also us a glider 1150 sq foil, which gets up pretty quick and has a really low stall speed. If the waves are big and pumping and it’s blowing hard I will use a 975 sq foil.
I have noticed my upwind ability isn’t as good as new higher end wings for sure.
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Meant to add that I really liked the Armstrong XPS that I tried. They are not a ridiculous price point which seems to be a trend, they flag well and had good all around power. If I was getting a new wing they would be on my list.
Curious to try the PPC wings as they sound like they have good low end.
Funny thing is I could use a new 4m but if I have to spend the money I am leaning towards getting a parawing instead.
FWIW the 2024 Mantis still has that magical low end grunt, but significantly better top end than previous versions. The rigid flag out handle is also amazing for wave riding.
I have been PPC curious though, those wings are looking really nice. Anyone using the new M1-x and can compare it to a Mantis?
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I just got my PPC M1-x. It’s a 6m but it’s wing span was same as my old 5.4 v3 sling wing. You will be shocked with a new PPC compared to the 3 year old stuff. So much power! My old wing is like using a garbage bag compared to M1-x. The x is a bit lighter and a bit more forgiving than the M1. I use in 8kts to about 20kts with an AFS whitebird 6’8”x 23” 115 liter. I am 90 kg. I use a 1350 sabfoil from 15 to 20 and a 1550 15kts and below. Use a narrower longer board and you can get away with smaller wing or foil. Maybe both if your pump skill is good
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1-2 years ago I had a 4m and 5m wings, different brands, with very good low-end but found them very on-off so when wind picked up they were a handful. Are modern designs better at top-end too?
The strike v3 has a ton of top end range. Trade off is it lacks low end grunt. I am sure there are wings out there that found a good balance. V4 may be an example as it sounds like that was their goal.
I ride the 5M M1 and I have a 6M Alulla Vayu and 4 and 3M Reedin SWX. The PPC M1 is got the low end grunt to get going on my 850 AFS Silk. When the gust hits, the Vayu and Reedin just gets overpowered and yanks your arms. The PPC takes that gust and carries you even more forward and goes even faster, so it really easily handles the gust. Luft’s really well surfing and i really like the tight canopy. Im going all in on M1 as my wing of choice. I like to try a boom and hopefully they release a boom with PPC soon.
Stays really natural. My only gripe is the tips does have a bit of tendency to hit the water when im trying to get on foil.
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another criteria is wind variability. on days where i am questioning whether the wind will hold i feel more confident taking out my biggest wings. in this context high end is so important. unsurprisingly i use f-one known for shedding wind but likely not the most powerful range of wings on the market. on a more finite point my quiver is 3.5/4.5/5.5/6. despite the small difference in size between the latter two, when in doubt i don’t hesitate grabbing the 6. i owned all three generations of the cwc and the v.4/v.2 are surprisingly light and manoeuvrable for their size. i weigh 76kg and use most often an appletree 69l midlength and an eagle x900.
Anything new will be better than your 3-4 year old wings. They degrade so quickly. I notice a difference after 5-10 sessions. After a season or two they are completely cooked. I try to sell them after 20-25 sessions, when they still have some resale value. As a result of this I’m not interested in spending a ton of $ on high end wings because I like to have just the right size for the conditions which necessitates a pretty large quiver of equipment!
I haven’t ridden that many wings but have been very happy with all my Mantis. I have 2, 3, 4, 5m (and just got a 6 for the lightest of wind…) They work great and have a good price point. The Cab Vision was a little more powerful but doesn’t go upwind as well. I prefer the Mantis.
