There’s all kinds of discussions on the benefits and speed of a thinner mast
There’s almost no discussion on the thickness of foils (and stabs). I wonder why.
One of you made this spreadsheet (thank you!)
I added some the Gong foils I use (for my own sake and bought them based on this chart as I was riding Gofoil)
Foil thickness plays into foil profile and that profile is part of what defines lift, glide and other functional characteristics of the foil. Thickness alone doesn’t address where that thickness falls in the chord of the profile and how the section flows, reflex, camber. As such it’s harder to isolate thickness as a defining variable and it doesn’t really inform me of the practical aspects or characteristics of that foil.
A mast is just a connection. It needs to be stiff and low drag. Right or wrong, thickness is seen as a proxy to drag (although it definitely isn’t the only factor) and thats why people refer to that number. Agree that its over simplistic and things like chord and profile are also critical characteristics, but the functional aspects of the mast are much simpler.
Much more complicated topic, but as a layman that’s how I think about your question in simplistic layman’s terms, and when people cite mast thickness as a defining variable, they are also speaking in simplistic layman’s terms.
The mast is a relatively unchanging item in your foil system that you always want the highest performance from. As such, a ton of effort goes into getting the perfect mast because almost no-one rolls up to the beach with a quiver of masts.
You could have the same conversation about the foils and tails but I see those as variables that we tune and it would be inaccurate to generically label them as thinner is always better. We commonly change foils and tails to match conditions.
This is really helpful to think about. In general we should probably try to match mast thickness to front wing thickness. I think of a lot of this as a “weakest link” scenario. If the mast is a lot thicker (slower) than the foil you’re going to notice it. In that case it might be so stiff that you start to notice the flex on the wing. Conversely if your riding a thick wing you’ll probably notice the flex on a skinny mast.
All this talk of 11mm masts probably only really matters to racers on 15ar foils
I’ve actually found some big benefits to be in the skinny mast assisting thicker foils (12.8mm mast assisting a 17.9mm foil). Once you’ve minimized tail size and gotten to a place of trying to squeeze every last drop of performance out of a foil the skinny mast helps.
12.5 mm mast and 14 mm front wing, in some pretty light winds. Check out 05:30 - 06:20, if you pump for more speed it just goes faster and faster. Does not hit the wall like a thicker mast / front wing would do.
If we’re talking specifically about surf, a lot of times, I’m looking for the best way to slow my setup down.
I heard an interesting comment from Zane Westwood on one of the podcasts about how he still uses the older Lift X2 mast. It’s stiff, but very draggy. I believe he said it allows him to use smaller wings but slow them down for surf. I know he rides mostly the 90 HA and 120 HA, both of which are fast.
With all the new MA surf wings coming out now, this might not be a useful strategy anymore, but it made sense to me that if you run a small foil and want to maintain it’s ride characteristics, but slow it down, just use a fatty mast.
This is dead on.
With my Silk 1050 I am always trying to make it faster. 123 tail and skinny mast.
With my Silk 650 I don’t have the skill to stay in the energy pocket with the standard 132 tail. I use an old 157 surf tail to slow it down but maintain the maneuverability. I don’t have access to a chunky 75cm mast or that would be an option too.
Is it perhaps a weight thing, and also related to the steepness of the waves? We often have rather small waves, and I feel that the only thing that keeps me going on such waves is an extra thin mast and a small and efficient front wing (631 cm2) in this clip. I don’t pump the foil, just make lots of turns, and this keeps the speed up and the foil happy. In our spots I see that heavier people (not in this clip) can sometimes use bigger foils and still keep up with the speed of the wave, but more often they still need to pump a lot, something I almost never have to do.
The fatty mast makes the ride more pitchy, as the mast goes up and down the water the drag changes drastically! On a small foil and thick mast it’s super sketchy. There is no benefits to thickness in a mast in the water, to my knowledge/experience. If you want to slow it down use a thick tail mounted flat.
