I’ve been moving along pretty well in my prone journey. Went from learning on an Armstrong 65ML, and I’m now on a 55ML. I wing foil those two regularly as well. At this point I’m catching waves pretty consistently and pumping back out to link waves, on that 55ML.
I’m ready to drop down to a smaller board. Given my positive experience with the Armie Midlengths, I’m considering a Armstrong Surf - the 42L 4’9”.I’m not looking at the 45ML because I just don’t like how narrow those smaller midlength sizes get. I feel Armie should have scaled those ML’s down so the smaller sizes don’t go THAT narrow. Currently, I’ve boiled things down to:
Armstrong Surf 42L 4’9" x 19-5/8"
Portal Enigma 45L 5’2" x 19"
Uni Quiver Killer version of the above.
Amos Kruzer 40L - 5’8" x 19-3/4"
While I like my MLs, I’m always a bit suspect of production boards since I feel custom board layups are usually better and done with more care. I’ve read a lot about how awesome the Portal boards are and given I like midlenths, they might be a good option. I also like that the 45L Portal still has decent width at 19".
My local spot has a pretty weak wave that can be frustrating to paddling into, which is why I like the extra volume for paddle power. I really appreciate a stiff board as well. Since I wing a lot, I’m used to larger boards (even though my winging boards are still smaller than average for that).
I’m 180lbs / 82kg.
Any thoughts on the above in terms of construction and how they ride? Anything else I need to be looking at? The Uni Quiver Killers seem to be hard to find right now, but there are a few out there.
By the way, I do have an Appletree Pro Foil V2 37L. I just never take that out given that when I bought that I didn’t know what I was doing, and started too small. I’ve towed that board into waves tho.
I can chime in on Quiver Killer 45L. I’m 67kg and riding it in long period swell, so conditions might not match yours. For those conditions, it gets me in very early. I take off just behind the longboarders. For powerful whitewash hits, it’s not my favorite. It works, but it takes off like a rocket and I find myself way out in front of the wave.
It’s weird, but up and riding, it’s become my favorite prone board with some caveats. I’ve been heavily focusing on my turns lately and it’s increased size allows me to be kinda heavy handed throwing my weight around. When I’m out on my 32L disco butter I feel like I have to be careful because it’s more skittish. On the QK I feel like I have more confident leverage to tell the setup what to do. Feels more like a shortboard to me. I just wish it had less contact points when I roll the board over hard. I’m eying the Armstrol 38L ML because of this.
As far as pumping, it definately takes an efficiency hit. It’s weird, I like pumping my 32L Disco Butter and I like pumping my 7’5” Kalama SUP, but it’s hard for me to get everything to click on the QK.
I have a 45 Quiver Killer that I love! I won’t go back to anything other than a mid length. That board has been an absolute game changer! Remember, has it Yui’s coming out with new quiver killers looking forward to seeing what they look like and what sizes they are. I believe the Portal shaped the Unifoil Quiver Killer & the Enigma is the same shape.
I’d go with the Amos. Vacuum bagged so very strong for how incredibly light. Ask that they don’t stick the pads on for the 5’8” as they set mine too far back and I don’t like a pad under my front foot anyway, and they glue em on such that removing is near impossible! The 5’4” for your weight would also be great. But if your waves are slow, no reason not to go longer as the board pumps great due to the very light weight, stiffness, and forward boxes. FYI, the length and shape will help more than the volume, which is the whole point of the Kruzer.
Can’t compare apples to apples but I have an Armstrong Surf 48L as my wing board
I think it finds a really good balance in design/features/durability and weight for a production board.
I’m not exactly easy on my boards and it’s holding up the best of my quiver
I’m far from a armstrong fanboy (I ride code foils) but I’ve been impressed with most of their boards I’ve ridden.
Good feedback and feel through the deckpad, not on the same level as appletree’s I’ve ridden (but lighter in comparison)
I have also proned it a few times it paddles and surfs really well but my normal prone board is 29L so it’s hard to directly compare.
I also demo’d the 42L surf (again for winging) and actually preferred how it was a little less wide than 48L but I played it safe for lighter wind sessions.
These seem to have sold well, so I would expect they’d release a new one. I’m trying to bridge the gap down from the large board I’ve been riding (55ML). And even if I settled on a regular prone board around 36-39L (Note that I mentioned the 42L, but I decided that I should op to stay below 40L), I would still consider having an ML at 45L. So I’m definitely keeping an eye out for that one. I do have to put some good days on my 37L Appletree and maybe that’ll be it. But I haven’t had a good day to try it yet. I paddled out yesterday hoping for some off set here and there, but the surf was barely enough for even a log.
Yes, I’m starting to realize that I can go lower in volume that my list there at the top. So far I’ve already adjusted the Armstrong Surf down to the 36L and the Kruzer to the 5’4” 36L. A spot I frequent often does have really weak waves, but I’m sure I’ll have an ML in my quiver regardless. Right now it’s an Armstrong 55ML that I wing on, but I’ve been progressing my prone on it. Eventually, I might get that Quiver Killer at 45ML for when I want to ride an ML.
Right now I don’t know how importing Amos boards to the US is looking like. And it doesn’t appear the Dark Arts Collab got off the ground unfortunately. They’re local to me. But All the hype around that seems to have disappeared, so the deal might have fallen through.
Thanks. I appreciate that. I wing an Appletree 62L Jazz that I’m selling, but also have a 50L Slice V3 and a 37L Pro Foil V2, so I can compare directly with Armstrong given for the last year the board I’ve ridden the most is a 65ML. I think they are amazing boards. The Appletrees still fill stiffer. That said, I like that the Armies are lighter and don’t pressure dent as much.. I think that weight vs stiffness, the Armstrongs are the way to go for a production board.
I think my view of prone board volume is a little wrong. The reason is, I went from surfing standard shortboards at 29L, to fishes at 35L. But the last 5 years I’ve been surfing 40-50L midlengths. I got pretty used to the extra volume, so when I started prone foiling, I gravitated to larger boards. I’m a year in and finally starting to feel competent. I’m adjusting that list to reduce the volume a bit. Luckily I have that Pro Foil V2 37L. I’m going to put a good number of sessions on that first before I commit to another board. I’ll get a better idea of what volume I can get away with. I doubted myself on going back below 40L, but I think it should be fine.
I mean, when it comes to winging, I’m at the other end of the spectrum. When other guys are trying to get an 80L board going in 10-15 knots, I’m zipping around on a 55L board. So I just have to transfer that confidence to prone.
That all said, I believe you posted somewhere that you’re 70kg. So I’m 12 more than you at 82kg. If I do the math on your 29L board, it puts me at 41L, so the 42L Armie would be the closest. Just saying. I plan to drop 2 more kilos in weight, but I don’t see me losing more weight beyond that.
At the moment OZ tariffs are 10%. Shipping is about $250, so the $1350 Amos comes in at $1700 or so. Not cheap. An Armstrong is $1380 plus CA tax for $1500 or so. The Portals may still be glassed by Proper, so maybe check on those? For what you’ve described use wise, the Enigma would be a great option if you didn’t go with the Kruzer. Nothing wrong with the Uni board, but I doubt it will be as light or stiff. The Armie boards are typically a bit heavy but very stiff. I just think that you’ll be frustrated with the paddle power of the 4’9” and have two small prone boards that need a fair amount of push…
Thanks. I know Portal says their boards are cut/glassed at Marko foam (Huntington), but didn’t know if it was actually Proper that was glassing them.
”I just think that you’ll be frustrated with the paddle power of the 4’9” and have two small prone boards that need a fair amount of push…” I really need to put some time on my 37L Appletree. A good number of sessions on that thing will answer that question.
I had an AT V-Pro and didn’t like it. I found that it got out of the water great and was light and stiff, and worked fine in crumbly surf, but as soon as there was any push from the wave, the hull would cause serious directional issues or porpoise. That was a long time ago though, and the LOL foils would jump out of the water if you didn’t keep nose weight which is what would cause the directional problems of the AT bow shape. Maybe it works great with a modern foil!? But my thoughts are that a low lifting, high aspect modern foil needs board speed and combined with a longer surfier nose like the Kruzer, you can keep the board in the water long enough to get to your feet without needing cat like reflexes, plus it paddles way better.
There is definitely a difference in overall refinement in the shape of the Pro Foil V1 and V2… but I think the V is about the same. The rocker seems even flatter on the V1 and the rails towards the back, as well as the tail are definitely a bit more rudimentary in how it all looks.
Still, even the V2, I feel it looks way too flat compared to new designs. I’ve towed this board and it felt fine. But at this point I’d much rather have one of the Appletree Prone shapes, or Foil Shop shape (that one looks great).
That all said, I paddled it out yesterday and it felt better paddling than I remember. But anyway, I didn’t get going on anything. I paddled out with my kids and they caught some micro waves which made it worth the session. But I just bobbed around trying to avoid hitting the reef below the entire time. Surf looks flat until this weekend, so I have to be patient.
I’ve been progressing on a ML, but I want a board that’s small and a bit more forgiving on take off in white water or critical sections. The MLs are great when you can paddle into a relaxed wave. But I find that getting up on whitewater seems much harder due to the long tail getting pushed around. That, combined with the narrow nose seems to make it less stable to pop up. But that might just be me needing more time. I only have about 25 sessions under my belt as of now.
I’m sure they are vacuum-bagged at the very least. That’s pretty standard nowadays. I’m more concerned about how stiff the box connection us. There is a 45L Enigma live right now on one of the sites, here in SoCal. I’ve been looking at it. But taking my time.
Vacuum bagging does not make the board better simply because it is vacuumed. It allows a non experienced laminator to produce top level boards. A vacuum bagged board and hand laminated board react the same, there is a large discussion involving a lot of large players in the industry on the fb group. Vacuum bagging also has a lot more waste than traditional laminating.
It doesn’t make it better but it makes it lighter… unless the non vacuum board was laminated using a wet out table to remove excess resin first. You cannot pour a bucket of resin over a board and expect to scrape it out of the cloth with a piece of plastic down to optimum resin:carbon ratio