Let me start by saying I’m a huge Appletree fan and I have 3 of their boards. A Pro-foil V2 37L prone board, Slice V3 50L wing / prone hybrid and a wing-only Jazz 62L. I’ve been considering replacing that Jazz 62 (or just getting another board in that range). I was just going to get another Slice V3 and have it custom made to 65L. That all said, I started considering A Skipper DW Prone, but the other day I winged an Armstrong Midlength 65L and I was totally stoked on it for lightwind days. I also think it’s the best looking board in the market right now. It’s just so nice.
But, I love Appletree construction and their boards are just so responsive. I didn’t feel that Armstrong was dull at all though. It felt great. So, I’m sorta of torn, What are you thoughts?
The only opinion that really counts here is yours. But at the same time, if you’ve tried the Armstrong and loved it, why would you risk picking the Appletree unless you could demo it first? Go with what you love, not with what you might love more.
I get it. It’s just that 20 minutes on boards says a lot, just not quite enough. That’s why I ask. Every single Appletree board I’ve owned I’ve loved… I’m taking a chance on the Armstrong, so I’de better ask around a bit before I pull the trigger.
I’m afraid I can’t help you with choosing between these two boards, I have no experience with either of them. Although, I am considering getting the Appletree DW Prone. Not until I read this post had I considered Armstrong’s mid-length. Now I’m faced with choosing between it, the Appletree and a third board I’ve been interested in, the Portal Enigma. You seem to want a board for winging whereas I’m looking for a board to Foil Drive (Prone/DW). Do you or does anyone else have experience with any of these three boards, especially concerning Foil Drive?
For prone specifically, I’d go Appletree DW Prone. I feel the smaller sizes of the Armstrong mid-length like the 35L and 45L are too narrow IMO at only 17". I’d personally only consider the 55L and 65L, so for that reason, the main purpose for me would be winging. I have also heard connection could be an issue for FoilDrive on the Armstrong ML, but I don’t have direct experience. I also heard that as long as you at least have the tip of the nose out of the water before starting you’ll get reception… but… it’s just stuff I’ve heard. I don’t have FD.
Hey man, we were talking either FB or IG the other day. I decided to give it shot. I know I like Appletree construction, but based on the demo of the Armie, I decided it felt great. I don’t plan to get rid of any of my Appletrees, they are still (and will be for the foreseeable future) my main boards.
No question. I’m sure it’s awesome. I still decided to give the Armie a shot. I love the shape. I know it’s kinda dumb but I like looking down while I’m riding and liking what I’m on. Haha. Also, I mainly want it for winging, so I like the idea of having strap inserts. For the Appletree DW prone I’d have to custom order it with inserts. I waited 2 or 3 months for my custom Slice V3, but at the moment I don’t want to wait.
Hi all, I received the Armstrong board yesterday and already put about 2.5 hours on it. I’m happy to report I like it as much as I liked the demo. For an EPS production board I have to say, it’s really stiff. I would have to ride it back to back against an Appletree DW Prone to compare. While I still expect the Appletree to be stiffer, on its own, the Armie doesn’t feel any less stiff. I’m actually pretty stoked I got it. Yes, I’ll continue riding Appletrees. I love them, but this Armie ML is going to be quite fun as well.
I did finally decide (sigh of relief). In the end I went with the Amos Kruzer 5’4" x 19.5" @ 36L. The general consensus among foil drivers seems to be that a narrow, long board planes earlier and from there you’re an ollie away from getting up on foil. At this point, for me, this is all just theory, I’ll see how it goes in practice. Seeing as how I’m a total noob, I may see about borrowing a larger volume board, just for those first few flat water sessions. I found a decently priced dw sup board on marketplace that might fit the bill, if borrowing a board doesn’t work out.
How are you liking the Armstrong Mid-length? You’ve had some time on it now, is it meeting your expectations?
Slightly off topic but I pulled the trigger on the appletree 45L majek burner for a prone/fd board. I chose that over their design for the deck recess which I prefer(like the pro v or takuma rising sun), and the, I think, better releasing tail shape. I think many of their boards, ironically, don’t skip all that well.
That’s an awesome choice (Kruzer). Actually, I think it’s probably the best of the bunch. I suppose you had to special order, right? So you’re waiting?
I’m really liking the Armstrong 65ML for winging. I think I have about 6-8 session on it now. Just last Sunday I did 31 miles on it running a Code 850S.
Since I’m looking for long and narrow for prone foil, the 55ML is on my radar. But so is the Appletree Skipper DW Prone I mentioned at the start of the thread. Now also the Kruzer… and as @FoilFondler mentions, also the Majek Burner. I was just looking at that earlier.
The ONE BIG PLUS for me with the Armstrong is having those inserts. Because one thing I’m afraid of a large prone board like these is that if I outgrow it and only want to prone something smaller, I can throw straps on it and wing it. I’ve been winging the 65ML strapless, but I normally ride straps so it’s getting straps ASAP.
I’m glad you like the Armstrong. The thought of spending all this money on a piece of gear you’re ultimately unhappy with is daunting, so it’s great when it works out. Hopefully I will feel similarly when the Kruzer finally arrives. I did have to special order it and it’s an eight week wait. Argh!
I feel you on the future proofing aspect. Thinking about outgrowing these high priced purchases keeps me up at night. The foil crew in my area have all told me to quit chasing after unicorns and I know they’re right.
I like your solution, throwing straps on it and winging it. While I await the Kruzer, I am considering getting a high volume starter board, but, like you, I don’t want to be stuck with something I have no use for besides selling it used. My location lacks the wind needed for winging, so I’m pondering a slightly different solution from yours. Despite there being little wind locally, the upstream trade winds up stream offer decent short period wind swell. I’m thinking about getting a dw sup board to start on Foil Drive and then transitioning over to the Kruzer. The dw sup will then take its place in my quiver once I feel competent enough to brave dw sup without the foil drive assist. There you have it! What do you think of my rationalizing buying a second board? I can already tell you what my banker thinks, it stinks!
That sounds like a solid plan. I don’t do FD, but I can see the appeal. I do have a large DW SUP board (KT 121L) but strictly for DW. That said, I’ve actually ridden it tons since I bought it mid-summer. It turned out to be a fun SUP board for flat conditions when balancing is easy. I’ve taken it out in the ocean for SUP foil surf and I’ve even taken it out winding on very light days. But I’ve been waiting for proper DW conditions, which we only get in winter anyway.
I have an Amos Kruzer 5’8" 40 and tried first time today on Foil Drive. Went really well and maybe better than I had hoped. I have a DC 6’0 20" wide 50l Foil drive board which I know well. The Kruzer is light. I need to get the nose out of the water for connection, but it is easy to get up. The nose helps with lift, it recovers easy on touchdowns and the deck makes turning the board easy. I am 66yy, 85kg and on average ability.
In the last week or two, I’ve had my first foil surf sessions using foildrive and I’m having a blast. My one and only board in the rotation now is a 75L Armstrong Midlength. I use it for winging, fd assited dw and now surfing. Pretty stoked on it. I don’t know if I’m really missing out by not being on a smaller board in the surf. The wave I’m riding is a slow roller that covers a good bit of distance and my approach has been flowy longboard-esque wrap around turns. I need to get a better surf specific foil, but that is another topic…
Even when I’m our surfing on fins, it’s usually the guys on bigger boards having the most fun. That includes me too now, given I’m surfing midlengths. I did the potato chip board for years, and then eventually got a 34L Fish that I surfed a lot. But now I’m a bit older and having a blast on a 48L 6’8" round nose fun board (midlength). Also a 45L 6’4" and a 6’11" 40L twin fin.
So, IMO, you’re not missing out. The only thing for me is that I’m terrified of not being able to duck-dive. I thought my duck-dive limit was 50L, but it turns out I can do 55L with some more effort. My 65ML means I’ll wget worked.
See, where I surf in SoCal, if it’s waist to chest high it’s all fun and games until a head high sweeper set rolls through. Not a problem on fins at any board size. But with a foil attached? No, I want to be able to clear those no problem.
Hi! Did you wind up getting your board and starting on your FD journey?
I’m hoping to get one on Black Friday and only have my 105l F one Rocket from winging. I’m hoping I can learn and practice on that at some local beaches that don’t have much swell at all. Then go further out and hunt for bumps. I’m on an older axis HA 900 and have a 105 and 75 Alu mast.
I figure I’ll want a smaller board shortly and it seems like appletree and Amos are well loved for it.
I’m 84 kilos and only have this first season of winging in the books.
Yes, I have begun my foil journey. I ended up getting the 5’4" Kruzer at 36 liters, an AFS mast and Silk 1050 front wing w/ 152 stab, and the Foil Drive Max (15cm motor height). My board arrived with a small crack on the nose, so I’m repairing that now.
So far I’ve been out 3 times. I borrowed a friend’s KT Quatro, which is around 100 liters for my first session. I found it easy to get up on my feet on this board, but I depleted the battery in no time. My second time out was on a Pyzel Screaming Eagle. My friend has been good to me. This second board is longer, narrow, and only 46 liters. It took me a minute to adjust to the smaller board, but I was on my feet before too long. The battery lasted longer this time, probably because the board planed easier. On my third session, again on the Screaming Eagle, I was in an area with a bit of swell energy. The first two times out had been in more or less flat water. The addition of a bit of swell energy took some getting used to. Getting to my feet was more difficult for some reason, though I did eventually manage it. The battery didn’t last me long this time out, but that is likely on account of my struggling to get to my feet.
When I say I got to my feet, I should be clear that the motor pod remained in the water. Whenever I did manage to pop the motor out of the water, I quickly dropped back down. So I’ve yet to experience a silent glide. That’s my next goal. I feel good about my progress so far. Each time out I set myself at least one goal. I find value the deliberate practice approach, a nod to you Eric.
There are also a whole set of behaviors I want to eventually make habits. Some of these I have others to thank for sharing their experiences with me, like never forgetting to turn off the controller when entering and exiting the water. Some others I’ve had to learn the hard way, in other words, from my own experiences, like when I learned the importance of keeping the covers on the foils until it’s time to get in the water. I still can’t believe that I scratched my stomach on my stab brfore I got out of the parking lot. Then there’s the whole routine you have to go through with the foil drive before and after each session. There’s putting dielectric grease on the battery terminals. There’s the lanolin lubricant that has to be put on the rotor and stator after each use. In general, the electric motor complicates things, but it’s a worthwhile tradeoff ss far as I’m concerned.
Thanks for asking about my adventures. I look forward to hearing more about your journey. Winging looks like a lot of fun. The wind here is inconsistent at best, so it’s not the first choice in foiling disciplines.