Keen to get some honest thoughts from experienced foilers.
As foiling gets more mainstream, do you think we’re going to see more conflict with surfers and local lineups — especially where powered craft, tow boards, e-foils, or skis start appearing around surf zones?
I’m thinking of situations like South West Rocks, where locals apparently turned pretty hard on a foil event after feeling like the area had been taken over. Whether people agree with the reaction or not, it seems like a warning sign.
My question is less about drama and more about where serious foilers actually want this sport to go.
For foil travel, would you prefer:
Established spots with easy logistics, crowds, and predictable operators
or
Quieter, lower-key places where access is harder, the setup is more private, and the whole thing relies more on respect, local relationships, and not creating a scene?
I’m also curious whether older/more experienced riders would rather pay more for a quiet, well-run setup with accommodation, food, safety support, and local boat knowledge — instead of the usual surf-camp/social scene.
Feels like foiling has a choice coming: do it respectfully and quietly, or risk becoming the next thing surfers and locals start pushing even harder back against.
The surfing culture (and I say this as a longtime surfer) really makes a big deal about themselves being top of the food chain, and all watercraft should bend a knee and kiss the ring of that particular group of water users. So the idea of “respectfully & quiet” kind of grates against my brain in a way I can’t really describe.
I think that if foilers are smart about where they ride and avoid coming into direct contact with other water users then that should be all we have to do to be “respectful”. If you’re a beginner riding out of control, then go somewhere sensible where you won’t come REMOTELY close to someone. If you’re more advanced, then I think it’s totally fine to ride the same break as other water users as long as you’re sensible and riding a few leg-rope lengths away from people at all times.
What I don’t buy into is this idea that foilers need to be a mile away or out of sight of surfers at all times simply because our mere presence somehow insults their sensibilities.
Im a lifelong surfer and beginning foiler. I think foils are def way more dangerous than surfboards. Ive cut myself a few times from the foil tips to know if I get entangled with surfers it would be super bad. I think surf culture has been around long enough that the eatablished hierarchy and relative safety tolerances have been worked out. Foiling is def a new dynamic that needs to tread carefully. Its a new variable in the ecosystem of water sports in and around waves. Sup surfing has gone thru a similar into and is tolerated now to aminor degree.
There are always clueless people in all sports, even foiling that can easily ruin it for us all. Alot of them are foil drivers… Take Mondos for example. Ive seen them cut thru the surfers and push the boundary into the analog zone, hording waves and cutting off people.
These threads come around every couple years when that generation of foiler get’s good enough to be reflective and look ahead. However, I will always bring up. Surfboards kill people. Surfing is inherently dangerous. Lots of professional surfers have died because of surfing. The foil isn’t inherently more dangerous. Common sense still needs to be applied.
I’ve always looked at foiling as the next shortboard revolution. What’s easier to find? The next Indonesia? Or the next Waikiki? I have lost that fight though, so I’ve moved onto wind sports because then at least SOME of the surfers go home.
yeah I should clarify surf foiling is more dangerous for casual accidents to ones self and others around them. Whereas surfing does have more death prob due to surf conditions in more powerful waves. I was more touching on more dangerous to those around you. More sharp poiny bits, also more stuff to get entangled in. In surfing multiple people can be close to each other without incident, not so with foiling, same with sups. They have a larger capacity to cause a menace… Im prob not framing my point well enough… But I think we can agree the type of danger is different, lacerations vs drowning…
Im sure even still there are more person on person surdboard incidents too but relative to how many people are already surfing Im betting it would be far leas than the equivalent amount of foilers skiller or not. Also thr isks of surfing are known and accepted. Of course foiling is so new it causes a heightened sense of fear from surfers. Which gives even more reason to be weary of it. Only time, and exposure and stats will bear out eventually. It will always be the idiots that could ruin it for everyone.
I mostly agree with this. I’m coming up on 10 years of foiling this summer, and by necessity I’ve had to learn to ride near surfers. There just aren’t enough places to go with great foiling waves and no surfers anywhere in sight. But I can always find a way to stay several leg rope radius away from surfers.
I have two key points to add about being near other water users.
In all those years, I can think of 3 specific times where my leash broke in dicey situations. Each time the board took off like a rocket to the shore. This can happen with longboarders who ride without a leash too, but the danger is not at all similar given the sharp pointy bits on a foilboard setup.
Secondly, no matter what, I can’t always duck-dive my SUPFoil setup into big whitewater. I can almost always stay with the board, but it does happen where the board gets ripped out from under me and goes to the end of the leash.
For both of these reasons, even though I sometimes share water with surfers, I fell strongly it is completely on ME to ensure there is NEVER a surfer down-wave towards the beach. That’s about the lines I take paddling out, and also the waves I pick and where on the waves I ride. I try to constantly assume that the leash might break even though it rarely does.
A single incident could really change the entire region’s approach to sharing the water.
To the original topic, I don’t feel a need to travel for pure wave riding. But I really enjoy travelling for wind and downwind conditions - and for this, sharing the water with surfers is not really a thing.
The surfing culture (and I say this as a longtime surfer) really makes a big deal about themselves being top of the food chain, and all watercraft should bend a knee and kiss the ring of that particular group of water users. So the idea of “respectfully & quiet” kind of grates against my brain in a way I can’t really describe.
You do have a point. But when did that growth happen? Is it postpandemic?
I would absolutely hate if i went from usually surfing alone or with 2-3 more (I wish i had that haha), to having to share the peak with 10x that amount…
Foiling is going to get more popular, but in the almost 10 yrs I’ve been foiling the main barriers still exist: cost and learning curve. Both being very steep to most people, if you want to foil it’s not a casual thing.
Coming from the “apex” surf background, the surfing community has a very narrow focus: surfing only, all the other water sports are periphery and “lame.”
Most surfers have no idea how big wind sports are compared to surfing. I didn’t and was blown away that we had a Wingfoil world tour within a year of winging being developed.
I actually know a lot of people that have “quit” foiling because it was so much work compared to regular surfing.
The big problem is that usually those that have the time (and will) to learn to foil, do not have the money to get into it. And those that have the money, usually don’'t have time to “sacrifice” learning it, when going foiling means not going surfing for example.
I feel like inside foiling itself, a similar thing happens with downwinding.
This. Iʻve proned before with 20+ foilers at a break, all competent. I had a good time by my buddy was stressing out from keeping an eye on all the traffic. It was like a swarm of bees. If the barrier to learn was lower, things would be very dangerous. Iʻve seen some stupid newbie e-foilers buzzing the lineup because they figured out how to get up and riding before they learned safety. (I also ride with plenty of foil drive guys who rip on the periphery and donʻt bother anyone.)
The money thingʻs kind of weird. Yes itʻs not cheap, but the used gear is great now at a big discount. Everythingʻs expensive. Playing video games can cost as much as a used foil setup and people still do that. I agree the money is a problem for barrier of entry. Lots of people donate their old boat anchors to the new generation, which “where I want this sport to go”. I think we just need to maintain a healthy, supportive community.
Here is my experience. I got into foiling at a point where I was starting to become grumpy about the crowds at our local surf spots. Foiling turned me from a semi agro “middle aged short boarder” into the most frothing annoyingly always happy prone Foiler who hasn’t had to deal with the crowds since.
I still like to surf once in a while when the waves are good.
Here’s the real point that I want to add to the convo from my experience that I think pertains to the question:
During my “foiling journey” I initially was so obsessed with trying to tune my foil setups and learn in a way where I was chasing the same feelings and turns etc. as surfing. I became grumpy again when I approached it like that. Then maybe a year or two ago I realized that even though foiling may not look that cool to the innocent bystander. We are riding underwater airplanes which is NOT the same thing and shouldn’t be the same thing as surfing!!! When I shifted my approach to embracing that fact and seeking out conditions and dialing setups that more played to foiling strengths (Glide, efficiency, smoothness, crazy long rides etc) it all really started connecting.
I’m stoked when I see the world’s top Foilers doing “aggressive turns”, airs etc. but I think most average foilers will find the most enjoyment treating foiling as completely its own sport and following a path that optimizes what foiling is actually good at.
I know I’m preaching to the choir and this isn’t a new idea, but thought it was worth adding to this thread.
I live where the only chip in opportunities for non FD prone foiling do overlap with “surf spots/lineups” But when I shifted from the foiling to try and get the same feels as surfing to foiling to foil I found that naturally kept me super far away from any surfers, with zero reason to really ever get near anyone. Even taking off at the same spots people were surfing.
and when surfer friends ask about learning to foil and wether they are going to be torn about surfing or foiling once they start, the beautiful thing about foiling is that you have so many options of fun to be had in the water on days with zero waves to begin with you don’t even need to make those decisions. You can just go down the path of winging or dockstarting etc . zero overlap with surfing days and just see if you like it or not.
As long as you have an open mind about what foil discipline you should chase and learning to know what to do in what conditions . Foiling basically has turned almost everyone’s backyard into a dream destination. Yes there are world class spots to pay to travel to, but I think one of the whole draws is that it’s a hobby that you don’t have to travel more than ur closest water spot to get the fix.
Here’s the future of surf foiling (efoil, prone, paddle, foildrive): bans at most breaks.
I’d bet good money on that.
Surfing is just too crowded already and surfers don’t want to share the resource, plus foiling appears very dangerous when you are floating in the water and a flying blade with a kook on it goes zipping by and then he wipes out doing a basic cutback. That’s literally 70% of foilers, maybe not the ones on this forum but in real life.
I think the future is wind sport foiling. Wing, DW, parawing. Unlimited resource and noone to bother. It’s what I have personally moved to almost exclusively.
kitesurfing is obvious precedent for a ban or segregation. Efoil will be the sensible justification and prone will get lumped in with it which is a more arguable case. I am surprised not to have already seen a push for this
I live well beyond any likely enforcement and will continue without much impact, but looking at Australia as the first to move here, with the foilers shooting promo videos in busy already way overcrowded lineups.
I have a ton of mix feelings and have experienced many different places and attitudes.
Starting with my home short period beach break, I used to prone foil there exclusively, but post pandemic surfing has really picked up. The experienced surfers know where to be, the newbies have this weird tendency to come near me almost following me… I can only assume due to wave count.
Fast forward to now when I mostly use a foil drive here to assist into waves that are 40 yards outside and 50 yards down the line from the lineup. They still follow me to a degree. Its comical because I will catch 20 waves, the new surfers will catch none and I just move a little farther each time.
I have not yet been yelled at or asked to leave here.
Travel to Bali where foiling has apparently been banned at Ulu (though people are still doing it). I have been there a dozen days towing in what I would call some of the most fun, exciting, adrenaline chasing foiling I have done. We towed in, waaaay away (basically a mile) from any surfers and simply kicked out at least 50 yards from their lineup. But, every wave, if you listened, you could hear a couple surfers yelling and screaming to “get out of here” or even making threats.
Never have I seen a foiler in the line up there, but thats not to say it hasn’t happened.
The latest was Hood River. Most experiences there were incredible and the foilers I spoke to were all stoked to converse.
But, I spent quite a bit of time at the Hatchery. The wind surfers might be worse than surfers. This is a sport I never understood, except in a place like Maui, where you are actually wind ”surfing”.
I got my head bit off by old crotchety wind surfers while riding swell down wind a dozen times. Foiling has obviously taken over as windsurfers are now the minority. But they are still out there yelling and crying about you crossing their lines on a bump. Almost going out of their way to dip downwind just to make sure you are in the way. They are taking lines that are dangerous to the now majority. Should they be banned?
My loosely comical take is this, foilers in general are a friendly, chatty type that have no issue sharing with anyone. Surfers and their culture breed the grumpy introvert type that will bite your head off when provoked. I have inconsistently for 30 years. The culture and attitude is what always turned me off.
That being said, just ban all the other non-foil watersports. When people foil they become happy and more tolerable, so its obviously the better choice….
I think the biggest most underutilized aspect is wings + isups. It’s a small boat sailing experience that can fit in a car, setup with one person, and a 5m wing will last a long time in light winds. Sure it’s not foiling, but it would get a lot of people out on the water without having to own trailers, docks, or having to launch a heavy boat.
I’d like millions of people to get wings and things to isup + wing and keep the foiling companies well funded to R&D great foils for the rest of us.
