Hey people! Im foilbrained and loving it!
3months in on a foiling a 4ft6 freedomboard
Just started getting into pumping on a 1040high aspect Naish. Im still learning the technique but im annoyed at how hard it feels to turn or roll these wings.
Its 98cm wingspan, or 38in.
2 options here:
Im considering choping off 10cm the front wing which makes it close to a 640cm² with 7aspect ratio
Ive been reading about wingspan
Or spending $ for a Naish 640HA. Im mostly surfing waist high, 2-3ft mush or 4ft+. 75cm mast.
Any thoughts on this guys? Before i jist throw more money at it?
Get a flat tail. Those Naish tails are way too stable. Something flat will skate around nice had have a good pivot on the mast.
Should I chop the tail? Remove the little tips then?
Totally! That will really loosen it up. just chop it at the point where those tips flip and you’ll be in a whole different world.
Also, moving the foil forward will loosen it up alot. Slam it forward and shim the tail for less lift(Tail angle up)
I find those tips gave alot of rudder in the back, adding sability, forcing you to surf leading the foil with your shoulders in more of a crouched position(to put your shoulders in the lead, you look and initiate turns with your body weight and have to roll the foil with your weight). A flatter tail is going to skate side to side better, allowing you to ride more upright, leading with the foil (you initiate a turn by countersteering the foil to kick it out the side opposit the turn, you start falling towards the turn, the you complete the turn by steering the foil back under you to catch you on the new side)
Thanks for all your help on this so far my man.
But do you think it’s still worth it to get a smaller Wing in the front for more agility and less wingspan? Maybe a 840cm
Totally! Gotta keep the stoke alive!
I don’t think you need to go smaller for better turning - atleast a smaller HA like that. Looking at those HA naish wings smaller is mostly going to mean getting aroun fast sections and stuff like that. I honestly don’t find that my smaller wings feel any faster but they are. They maybe technically turn a little better but they are much more tempermental. I can turn 15% better on my small HAs but blow 50% more turns!
Looking at you other post that naish is 98cm wide?! Yeah thats pretty wide and probably on the top end of being able to turn agressively if its not a magic wing. I find for general use surf foiling the 90-95cm span range is the sweet spot for pumps good enough to double dip and still turns. For the area the span is mostly about how fast you want to/have to go(gotta get around a fast section? smaller and thinner)
Looking at going to a smaller span wing you actually want to increase area. I’m riding gofoil these days and i’d say the RS 850 (93cm span super HA) is a smaller wave glide from bump to bump wing and the RS 1000(83 cm span mid aspect) is for agressive turns in the pocket. If you want to rip turns look for something bigger in area and smaller in span. Another factor in that is if you want to crank turns top to bottom you actually need to go slower and have a less efficient foil (kind of like a rockered out shortboard compared to a fish) which is why mid aspects exist but they’re going to have a narrower speed range than a HA. Generally the mid asepcts arent that great though because you sacrafice time on foil. If your not multi dipping your not getting the wave time to optimize your skill set - so the mid aspect may turn better than the HA but the decrease in wave time means you’d be riding better on the HA(but a moderate HA - 98 is pushing it)
How good it pumps - mostly about the span
How good it turns - mostly about span (but some bigger wings have some design voodoo like the progression or the kujira 1210)
How much speed you need (low end take off) - area
How much speed you can handle - how HA and thin the wing is
Obviously design nuances bend and break these rules.
I’m 6’4” 230. 1040 would be a small front wing to me in small Florida surf.
Changing tails makes a massive difference. And it’s your cheapest change to make.
Shorter fuselages also make a big difference, and are also cheaper than a front wing. (I don’t know your fuse size.)
In our small Florida surf I most often use a Uni Progression 200 (roughly 1300 in size, roughly 104cm wide) with the short fuselage and the smallest tail I can get away with.
(I ride the 170 in decent Florida surf.)
Check out Erik and Mike Pedigo ripping on this much larger front foil. I don’t think your front wing is the problem.
Never been on a nash foil but my takuma 1210 is really fun turns really easy im 230 lbs.
Youre a god good sir.
Would you or have you
ever surfed a small wing like the lift90? 120? Is that surface area too small for us big boys?
560cm² or 700cm²
I rode a lift 120 for a bit but it wasn’t up to the task structurally. I could feel the flex and it was really unpredictable. I went with the gofoil RS 850 because it’s the best strongest stiffest construction of any of those smaller HA wings and it made a huge difference. The lift would never let me actually pump ( would drop out with even the slightest push even at speed) but on the 850 I can dig as hard as I want.
I can’t stress enough how the 850 doesn’t turn dramatically better than my 1210. It just gets around fast sections that the 1210 wouldn’t make.
Im on a 65cm fuse
The naish 220stab with these wingtips
I believe the curved tips on a tail stabilizer are there mostly to give you more stability / less looseness. Designed to appeal to the largest number of foilers / beginners / intermediates.
One option, if it’s out there, is to get a Naish tail with no tips / smaller tips… another option is to do it yourself.
I have chopped the tips off a number of tails and it made them far more turny / loose / less stable.
I have no experience with Naish tails. But I’m sure someone has done this.
You can chop them basically parallel to the fuselage / water flow. Then slightly round the sharp bits. Basically.
I have always been able to chop a half inch off each side without hitting the core material. So then you just use sandpaper to clean up your cuts.
Look up “chop shop” for foils on YouTube to see how some people do it
Yea i did it this moring with a multi tool everyone!
Specifically this is the Naish 220HA tail for future reference.
So I tried to ride some 3-4 foot waves today and I’m not sure if it’s because of the tide but it definitely felt a lot more unstable and loose though I could tell right away because when I try to do some type of a line adjustment on the takeoff I used to feel the rear tips essentially grab almost like a surfboard fin that would just grab hold and allow me to just go.
Most of all of my waves i surf are Beach Breaky cobblestone waves but they do have some size and push every once in awhile except mostly during high tide it’s softer.
I’d like to say what I found was a looseness in the foil and I do believe that it definitely felt looser than I remember where the leading shoulders were really difficult to push into turns. Now I feel LIKE it was alittle bit more like a small drift on the turn which then grabs and holds.
Id reallt have to ride the tail again to know for sure this isnt my mind playing tricks, but overall i felt more of a drift on the turn, which makes sense knowing how it all works on the turn.
Ideally id like to do a bottom turn based on then lean, but i did end up getting a 900cm² Naish MACH 1 foil as well ordered for a smaller wingspan. Ill post a review once i get to play with it.
I see what you mean making sections based on the aspect ratio now @TooMuchEpoxy . It clicked today with what you had written and me reflecting on it while riding today as well
Thanks everyone. I really appreciated the responses and doing more searching ive really considered that we need to crouch more withba lower stance just for style baby!
Sorry I didn’t see TooMuchEpoxy giving basically the same answer. Glad you went for it
I’m even considering getting off naish as I’m hearing they’re behind the game
I assume you mean the ‘old 1040’ as the new S27 HA range is quite different. The old 1040 is my daily driver for prone, and yes it’s definitely behind the game but also works pretty well for the small waves I mainly use it in.
I have chopped a few cm off each tip of my 1040, and I have both the Naish 280 and 220 tails with significant tip chops on both to make them totally flat. I prefer the chopped 280 for prone, it has a bit more span and pumps better, while still being nice and loose.
I am not particularly interested in speed when I prone, but if the size is up I will be on the 914HA, but this wing has an incredibly high stall speed so needs to stay powered up. I haven’t read any feedback on the HA range yet as its only been out a few weeks.
Noooo sorry actually this on s27 1040ha.
I will need to clarify. I did chop the back tail wing tips abit and rather sloopy but i did notice the ability to turn was much faster…but i still want to bottom turn the foil top to bottom.
I realize now from others stating that the 98cm wingspan is rather large for this maneuvering im desiring. All on the s27 fuse, s27 front 1040HA and s26 tail 220cm
As such i need abit lower aspect ratio. When i looked closely i saw fone’s HA eagle and the Naish s27 1040 HA to look verrrrrrry similar which was interesting considering I pondered switching to Fone.
Thanks, that is the first review I have read of the S27 HA range. I definitely don’t struggle to turn the old 1040, but I do find 1040cm2 is still quite a large wing for a lot of conditions and was looking forward to the smaller sizes in the S27 range. I would be interested to know how it goes with other tails.
Im not by any means a good foiler yet, as im not able to pump back out consistently- in fact- I get excited when I see the next wave as I exit a wave and start pumping back out towards a set and I get off balance.
So please note my skill level on my review.
But i think Im comparing it to the likes of mr benets who is able to turn rather well on beachbreak
I have found when the waves are steep of course-carving/turning is much easier
so getting off balance while pumping is often mast flex/connection movement - at your/our weight i’d almost gurantee it.
Your pumping out fine an everything’s all in column and then you hit a little piece of suqare chop or something and get knocked out of alignment and have to just glide for a sec while you get back “on top” of the setup then resume pumping. With a stiffer setup you kind of feel the bump but don’t get kocked off from ontop the wobbly stack.
I’d say check and see where its moving. Assemble the foil then just put one hand on the connection so its touching both sides and flex the foil with the other (your not going to break anything with you hand, riding loads are immense in comparison). You’ll feel any flex. Now what to do about it is a different story…I have previously expoied connections together to eliminate play. Most of this stuff will still come apart for disassembly if you do that but it kind of screws you on resale cause it might not look quite right after.
You can test mast and wing stiffness the same way, torque the wing around, feel how it moves, bend it twist it whatever and just feel it. then feel some other setups, you’ll start to figure it out.
Mast stiffness/wing stiffness/brand stiffness/aftermarket masts are their own discussion. At your weight though don’t trust anybody. Learn to use your hands to “feel” what a stiff setup is like and go with that. As far as the f-one before your buy one pur hands on one, see what that flex feels like.
My 1210 setup is a cedrus aluminum mast (stiffer than the carbon) a custom fuse(stronger than stock, bolts directly to cedrus mast so no connection adapter issues), and the front wing permanently epoxied onto the fuse. This is the level of bullshit required for a stiff-enough setup at our weight.
Last is board stiffness - this is a connundrum. There’s not a production board on the market that will stay stiff for you for more than 6 months. Be prepared to overbuild your own boards sooner rather than later. again - another thread for that.