Guys that ride the 75cm seem stoked with its responsiveness and ability to tap into that shallow swell energy. What to make of people cautioning against riding foils with wing spans greater than the length of the mast? Apparently the risk of breaching is greater. Has this been people’s experience with the 75cm? Is 80cm enough to avoid this from happening? My circumstances: prone surf and down winding in waters plenty deep running these newer wide wingspan foils.
I’m going to add a twist to the post. What if you add a Foil Drive to the mix?
How does that effect the choice between 75 and 80cm?
Very interesting, typically shorter mast should be stiffer given the same construction and scaled dimensions.
sounds like the two versions 75 and 80 have different geometry and construction. Super hard to tell from the available website information. Is this the case?
yes, both thinner chord and thinner profile on the 75.
Ive got the 75 and 85. I think the 85 feels slightly stiffer than the 75 too, but neither feel flexy. 75 is noticeably faster though.
I honestly think its mostly a matter of how you ride. If you are banking hard turns, I would prefer the longer stiffer mast. If you are maximizing glide, then go with the shorter one.
I don’t FD, but I have to imagine the useable mast length with the 75 could be an issue. Youve also got more weight on the board which could make that mast feel flexier. Again, I don’t have firsthand experience, but would expect the 80 (or 85) to be better suited for that usage.
Hi!
I own the 80 UHM, went for it mainly cause I wanted a 1 mast to rule them all, so, for winging and bigger waves I do appreciate the extra lenght of a 85, and for surf and dw I enjoy the responsiveness of the 75 - Didn’t had the money for 2 TOP of Line masts so went for the intermediate option - the 80cm. Don’t regret it at all - I’ve gotten used to it for all disciplines and enjoy the range of movility between surf/sup/wing/dwsup foiling in general - and just got used to the extra range. For DW in particular, I used to believe in the concept of shorter mast for easier pop up, and keeping the foil closer to the water line to go faster - but those 5 additional cms are great for that additional range to avoid breaches when you make little mistakes going fast.
I prioritize stiffness and range - I once tried the 75cm UHM with a 1100HA PURE - and it did felt a little bit more flexier (still stiffer than most masts I’ve tested from other brands) than the 80 - With a SILK line I don’t think that would matter that much, but thinking about DW going with really high AR’s and for example the new 1300 enduro wich is kinda big and spany - I keep the 80cm as my top choice for 1 only mast.
If you include the FD in the equation, then the 80 it’s recommended - and probably the 85 the ideal since you want some clearance for the FD to be out of the water and you still have some range to play and carve.
What cable length are you using on the FD? I have an 85cm mast and 25cm cable, giving the same usable mast as a 75cm and 15cm cable. I have no issues with the usable mast length, so if I was going from scratch I would way way rather have a 75cm mast and 15cm cable for a few reasons.
-the max builds 5cm, making the system response time the same as a longer mast, so to get that responsiveness back I want as short a mast as I think can get away with
-I am heavy and I want to be able to launch small foils, so as little mast drag at full immersion as possible is essential
-The FD adds a bunch of weight, so I want as efficient mast when up on foil as possible to get some of that pump and glide back.
Very much appreciate everyone sharing their experiences with the various AFS masts!
In the Moth foiling dinghy class, we found that chord makes a big difference to top end speed. Makes sense that less drag would also translate to more glide, so if you’re chasing that, the 75 seems the one to go for.
Moths have two foils in the water, a rudder controlling yaw and a flap providing height control. So the foils don’t need to be easy to ride.
It’s an optimisation between early lift to get foiling first, and top speed. Foils have trended smaller and smaller and chords on the rudder and main foil thinner and thinner - basically only limited by materials strength. Boats are foiling on about 900-1100 sq cm of area and do 30 knots regularly.
Mostly trying to prone in reasonably clean but very sub par conditions. Also do some downwind laps when it lines up so that I can tuck back into a bay or behind a point to get out of the wind and waves. At 100kg suited up I am too heavy to do the open ocean upwind downwind stuff like Josh Ku.
The 60cm of usuable mast works pretty well for both, when proning I am on narrower span foils and leaning over a lot more. Downwinding is wider span but less lean angle. When it gets really really sloppy downwinding more mast would be nice, but I’ve started running my motor all the way up, probably about 12 or 13cm, and the extra mast still isnt enough to totally get rid of ventilation when downwinding in slop. Where I am gets reeeally steep and sloppy though. My next move there is go to a foil that handles tip ventilation better in those conditions.
For anyone who can foil, I don’t see how the adjustable cable would be a benefit. You want the motor up out of the way as far possible. There is a foot shuffle necessary with foil drive to go from powered to unpowered riding, and the shuffle gets bigger and thus harder to learn the further down the mast the motor is. I think a short cable and 3 blade prop, which handles ventilation much better, is the better solution for all use cases I have come across aside from teaching a complete beginner to foil - the longer cable is an advantage there.