Hello everyone. I want to learn freefoiling, which means starting from anywhere. It seems the most reliable launch is a knee launch. So, my question is: which Axis foil is best for this?
I see three options:
PNG V2 1200
PNG V2 1400
Fireball 1750
I couldn’t find a clear description of the benefits of the PNG 1400. The 1200 is clear—it’s a slightly better version of the 1150. The 1750 is great for covering distance, but I have some questions about the launch.
For context, I have a PNG 1150 (V1) and a Fireball 1350. I can pump for about two minutes using a running start. I weigh 85 kg.
The FB 1350 arrived when the water was already cold, so I only rode it briefly and didn’t do any long-distance testing. I’d ridden a 1401 before. In comparison, the FB 1350 requires more effort to pump if you’re low on the mast, and less if you’re high and have achieved the right speed (compared to the 1401). But the maneuverability is excellent, almost like the 1201. The 1350’s average speed is also higher, as is its glide. Initial speed is slightly higher than the 1401’s, but not significantly; I was able to get going on my second try.
To me a “freefoil” is one you can start from anywhere and then pump at least 2 min (but more like 4+) without destroying your heart rate.
1750: starts will be challenging but it’s well suited for the knee start with good glide, pumping time will be fine
1400v2: starts will be easier but pumping time will be a bit of an issue depending on your fitness
1200v2: This is just another 1150, it will be easy to start but you wont pump it for long enough
You might want to consider getting a Takoon PP 2300 instead, or 1950 if you are ligher / really fit. I’m sending my Takoon doodad and fuse to Kyle today so Cedrus will have a Takoon adapter coming soon and you can pair the 2300 with the Clydesdale mast.
I’m the same weight, I’ve had 28 sessions with a dock start board (afs sk8) launching from a 4 section folding ladder 3-24in from the water surface. No steps, no running. I’m not past 40 seconds yet.
Started with a png 1310, moved to png v2 1300.
Just got the fireball 1750/520mm fuse/80mm fat mast/ skinny 50. It has glide where the png1300 just wants to slow down and sink. I’ve only had it one session, but it finally feels like I’m getting lift and glide where the other foils have just been a losing battle with gravity. (40s max). It’s slippery and turns surprisingly well. I tried it wing foiling in 6kts and a fat board, and was very agile.
I do not get high on the mast. I’m bad at this, but I will learn it!
Also, it’s got more glide than the takuma 1750.
It’s harder to start, and more pitch sensitive, but totally doable with a no step start off a ladder at water level.
Launch and pumping are two different skills. If you’re already launching, congratulations, you’ve completed the most difficult part of the journey. Pumping time will increase naturally, regardless of the foil. With each session, you’ll understand the mechanics a little better and become a little more efficient. And, in general, launching from a stepladder is really cool.
I’ve ridden a PNG 1300, and it’s a great foil. If you say the 1750 gives more reaction time than the 1300, that gives me hope.
And one more thing. It’s often said that larger foils need a shorter fuselage. I currently have a 640mm fuselage. Will I get the same effect if I use a shorter stabilizer? Why did you choose a 520mm fuselage? It’s quite short.
Have you tried all three of these Axis foils? I’m not really ready to switch brands, as Axis is one of the few that’s easy to get. And a lot of people here ride it.
Although the price of 1750 + mast + fuselage is quite hefty.
I have not tried the FB 1750 or the 1400v2, but I do have friends that tried out the 1750 at AWSI.
I owned a 1300v2 for a while, as well as 1401, 1180, 910b.
I’ve tried the 1200v2 for a couple runs.
Larger foils needs a short fuse is more of an Axis thing. It’s their way of making larger foils feel more agile. It also has a benefit of being easier to gain height on the mast but what you give up is pitch stability which makes starts much harder and gives you worse glide. I think the 64 cm fuse is the best length for Axis.
I might switch back to Axis 1750 if I try it and like it, but that would be via a Cedrus mast. Currently I’m happy with my Takoon PP 1750 but I would like to gain more endurance so I will either get a Takoon PP 1950 or 2300 or the FB 1750. For me when free foiling being able to start easily is a high prio though and I do worry about how easy the FB 1750 will be to start.
If Ketos had a Cedrus adapter I would probably buy a LR155 but the cost and stiffness for their entire kit is prohibitive.
Your mini-Tomahawk launch is sick; I’ll definitely try learning it this summer.
Regarding the fuselage, couldn’t everything you’re saying be achieved with a smaller stabilizer? Let me explain. I have a 640 fuselage, and when I install a smaller stabilizer, I feel more maneuverability, easier climb, etc. I order stabilizers from AliExpress and have almost the entire skinny line. And changing stabilizers is much easier than having multiple fuselages.
I looked at the Axis Fatty fuselage line—they only have 700, 640, and 520. It seems like the 520 is too small for stable launches.
And I see you’re riding an 80cm clubber. Do you like that board? How tall are you?
I’m 5’10”, 75 kg and I have both 80 and 87 Klubers. 80 is perfect for dock/rock starts but it’s a bit too small for me to water start behind the boat without ripping my arms off so I got the 87 for that.
Smaller tails will also loosen up the turning making it easier and faster but wont change the turn radius as much. When it comes to easily gaining height a shorter fuse makes a much bigger effect than smaller stab.
I have the 520 because most pumpfoilers I asked agreed that’s the best, and it’s just 40mm shorter than the 560 I was using.
Landing poorly and starting is easier on the 1300v2, and easier with a bigger tail. The 1300v2 turned easier (perhaps because I’m more use to it) than the 1750, but the glide and lift of the 1750 felt as advertised.
Also, swapping to the fatty fuse / 520 with the 1300v2 made it much more stiff. I felt like my energy was going into pumping or into mistakes that bucked me off rather than into flexing.
There are dock starters who basically have no tail, so going with a shorter fuse will be lighter when / if you get to a no tail setup.
Fuse length also means you can position the mast differently on your board. With the 540/png1300v2 I was at the back, but with the 520/1300v2 I was 1in forward, or with the 1750, almost mid tracks (2in forward)