James has always been a big proponent for those big slow foils. Because he wants people to be able to DW in super light conditions if that’s all they have.
quick update, after a couple sessions on the 680, ive decided to go back to the 770 for a bit. this time paired it with the small fuse and 142 tail. now i feel like i can rip turns on the 770, whereas before i tried the 680, i was very hesitant on doing turns. its almost like the 680 “taught” me how to rip turns on the R foils, and going back to the 770, i was able to take what i’ve learned and apply it. So now, all of the sudden, i feel like the 770 turns as good as the 980, maybe even better, as its like a higher speed version of it. the 680 still turns way better, like one size down, so maybe like an 850 or in between the 850/720…
the difference of user friendliness and glide is night and day on the 680 vs 770. I can glide like for 10 seconds on the 770 when i want to stop pumping, whereas i pretty much almost instantly drop out of the sky on the 680. its way less user friendly, i cant gravedig on the 680, one mistake and the pump is over, whereas i can still gravedig on the 770. In terms of pumping back out, I no longer feel the 770 pumps twice as good as the 980, maybe just 50% better. The 680 honestly has the potnetial to be less effort to pump overall than the 770 as its more efficient if you dont make a mistake.
Now at this point, im feeling like there is no need for any of the S wings. Its just a matter of learning how to turn the R wings. Its the same as if you are used to riding MA wings then went to the S, they feel hard to turn because you havent mentally figured out what lines to draw, and are hesitant to “not do something stupid and impale yourself”. but after figuring this out, they seem to turn just as good as the S. With better pump and lower stall speed, i think its time to throw away the S wings for prone. They are still good for learning to prone and towing of course, and they still pump amazing, its just the R we are comparing it to.
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Prone only -
I have the 850s, and love its pump and glide (on days when I’m not using the AFS silks for wave surfing) . If I were to get an R wing, would a size down pump as well? Let’s say 770r in comparison.
770 seems equal to the 980 in turning and between 850-980 low end
680 would be like the 850 in turning between 720-850 low end
R would pump better than S, but harder to ride and turn initially. but if youre able to rip and link multiple waves on the 850, there is no reason why the 680 would be “too hard”
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Thank you - that’s great info
I had a chance to do some more comparison of the two foils. Earlier this week I did a downwind run on the 1075 that I have been doing with the 1201. Wow, the difference was pretty remarkable. No real difference in early lift and paddling up on tiny swell, same ability to ride the slow well. But I got gassed out pumping between bumps several times - just too much low speed drag. It was a super frustrating run having to come down and rest often and halfway through I swore that I’m going to sell the 1075R.
So this morning I pulled up to the surf break with small conditions and decided to do a back-to-back with the two foils. Same length fuse, same tail, same mast, same board, same conditions.
The 1075 rides waves so much nicer. Its nice and firm and controlled coming up out of the water, dropping into a wave, making turns, and pulling off the wave to pump back out.
But god damn is it hard work to pump. Seemingly more energy input needed than my 860R. But absolutely the 1201 back to back there is no comparison. The 1201 is just so efficient at pumping through the whole speed range.
Where the 1201 is frustrating is that it is pretty floppy and also the lift comes on fairly suddenly coming up to speed. It is pretty hard to stay in control riding the wave, doing turns, and pulling off the back of the wave. It surfs like shit to be honest. I had way more fun in the waves with the 1075.
In conclusion, even though I had fun on the 1075R this morning, I would have rather been on the 860R all things considered (surfs and pumps better in my opinion). And when I want pump efficiency and glide at slow speeds, the 1201 is still king by a large margin.
All of the above may be moot for you lightweights, I’m 90+kg in a heavy wetsuit and cold water.
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Based on this, what would you say about the 960R that sits right in between?
960R is absolutely my next effort. I haven’t had enough time on the 960R, but I think it has a lot of promise. It definitely has less drag than 1075R at all speeds and seems like it has pretty good low end. It will really come down to whether it extends the slow speed performance of the 860 enough to be worth being a little less nimble and a little more drag at speed.
In general - CODE foils have a ton of special magic as many here know - but I think that magic is most pronounced in the small sizes. And maybe even evaporates in the larger sizes.
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Deleted: I already said this up thread. I should pay attention instead of quickly posting to procrastinate from work.
Nice videos. Conditions look awesome! Where are you foiling?
Interesting thanks for the comparison, funny enough I couldn’t disagree more regarding the 1075 vs 1201. I did a back to back on a 1201 and granted it was the first time id been on it or any axis wing, and on an Alu mast. I felt it was slower/draggier, harder to pump and impossible to turn. I did feel it had more absolute low end though.
For downwinding, Id choose the 1075 every time.
I’m a bit lighter at ~80kg, in warm water so maybe there’s something there?
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I’m willing to bet that the main difference is our weight. It wouldn’t be the first time I had totally different feelings about foils, gear works differently for us heavier folk.
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Which stab were you using with the 1201?
No idea, but it looked comparable to the 135R i had on my setup.
Alu mast and stab may explain why the Axis Art pro 1201 felt very bad compared to the Code which was obviously on a carbon mast.
yeah, the axis aluminum mast feels like the handbrake is on compared to any of the modern carbon masts. Honestly, the jump from 19mm aluminum mast to axis carbon feels immediately noticable, and then the jump from that to cedrus surf is also a similar jump in drag reduction
Has anyone ridden the fireball 1000/1070 and the code r wings for comparison? The fireball seems to be taking some cues from code with the low chord tips and high camber.
I want to know how thick the fireball is. Somehow that seems to have stuck in my head that Code have a very low thickness (similar to Mikes Lab) and I wonder about how that plays into it.
Just a fairly average downwinder in my 60’s and nearly 90kg.
I have used the 1201 on a 75 Ali mast, ok in super clean conditions but horrible when it got really turbulent, then a 75 HM carbon, big improvement in control, not so much speed.
I then went to an 80 UHM, so much better in every way, better control, glide and speed.
Usually getting from around 2:40-2:45 km splits but anywhere from mid 2:30s to 3:00s.
With either a 360/45 or 365/55 Skinny rear.
Love the low end in light conditions but not really a fan in faster/rougher conditions.
Would like too but haven’t tried r series code, have demoed the 980s and 1130s.
I was thinking of making the change to code for more surf ability but have decided to give the 1070 fireball a go, hopefully get it soon.
