RE this video from Marcus Tardew.
He equates the range of the 860R (105cm span) to an Art Pro 1121 (112cm span), or a 150 HA-X (99cm span)
Anyone with experience on these wings able to speak to this? Similar low end AND top end?
Sounds like all of the Code stuff has that lift 120 (unexpectedly good low end) type magic.
There are no magic foils… (maybe their measurements should be checked). I’m about to pick up an 860R, have worn out a 150X (and 1/2 way thru the 2nd) but can see just on specs neither would likely have the low end of the A1121. The 860R will be a fairly different animal than the 150X, basically a bigger 110X. The 110 has about the lift of a 135ish 10AR foil. To give an idea of the AR dif, the 150X has a span of 99cm, the 110X, 96.5cm.
Worn out? As in the foil is getting floppy or something?
Numbers mean nothing anymore.
A lot of the “magic” in code foils is a really nice and solid connection system.
I don’t ride the R series as I’m predominantly a prone surf,wing ding rider on the 720s and 980s.
I agree with above though there’s no magic foil but from the time I’ve spent in code foils circles the selling point of the R series is the “Average speed” a long with a good low end and above average glide and pump.
Of course you pay in manouvarability with the high AR wide span but if downwinding (especially racing) is your thing then the results in a lot of the local races in Australia are hard to argue with.
1121 is my goto foil for my size (95kg). I bought an 860R based on that video. Supposed to get it this week and I’ll let you know. By the numbers it has no business being in the same boat as the 1121, but you can’t compare overall numbers on two different foils that have different airfoil sections.
Jondrums, you will soon be the only guy in this thread with any meaningful information for the OP. Looking forward to hear what you think 
But… I don’t completely agree that numbers are no longer relevant, they tell us a lot. Axis, Armstrong, Code, Lift et. al. all have their foil sections down so any of these brands’ “downwind” specific foil (of similar AR) can be compared by surface area.
Yes surface area is less relevant comparing a 980S and 860R but knowing the AR of each (along with a lot of past experience) allows us to compare. Since it’s impossible to demo them back to back, what choice do we have? 
I have the 860R, with 2 real DW runs and a shore runner under my belt with it so far. I’ve prone surfed the 150x a couple times but not done a DW on it, and I’m coming off of the prog 200 and 170.
Getting the 860R up is a tad easier than the 170 imo, its faster paddling through the water, and easier to balance on my board. It does however require a very finessed touch when getting going and you can definitely overpower it if you try to mash it out like you can the progressions. Otherwise low speed feels pretty close as long as you don’t hammer it.
On foil its no comparison, it is night and day easier to glide from bump to bump with a lot less effort than the 200 or the 170. The progs are good at going slow, so i think if you are good at finding energy going slow they work well, but if you try to glide a fast efficient line the higher AR foils out perform for that style.
I suspect the 150x is very close to the 860 in the glide/speed department, I was able to get much closer flat watering the 150x vs the 860, but that could have been down to different boards.
I have 860R and used it for downwinding with wing and light wind winging. It has very low stall speed and insane glide and efficiency at its normal speed range.
The magic is that this foil can go super slow at a very high angle of attack without stalling. Other efficient HA foil will stall at high AoA so they can’t go slow and harder to start because of this.
When I wing foiling this thing in lightwind with a relatively small wing. I pump the wing to a certain speed and then activate the foil to get up. This foil will take off at a slow speed and high AoA and then I can keep dragging with that high AoA until the board is completely out of the water then level off and accelerate to normal speed for the foil. Just like an airplane doing high-performance take-off using short runway. If I do the same thing on my North HA1050 it will certainly stall and dolphin dive.
It like this foil has 2 modes of operation. At High AoA it can go slow but somewhat draggy and when level off it works like an efficient HA foil.
well, I got my 860R and have it all mounted up in place of the 1121 using the same KD tail with the same angle of incidence. The medium fuselage is just about the same length as the crazy-short advanced.
I got it on the water for just an hour in between rain storms to sneak a session in with about a dozen waves ridden. Conditions were terrible so I don’t really feel right making much of a review. I will definitely say that the 860R has plenty of low end and pumps fine, certainly more low end and better pumping than the 1051. And it also surfs a little more fluid than the 1121, maybe more like the 1051. Hard to say yet whether it has similar low end and pumping versus the 1121.
I need a few more sessions and I need to play around with the placement in the boxes and tail shims a bit. But if you are a 95kg rider on the 1121, you’ll probably be ok on the 860R.
Even if the low end fits somewhere between the 1051 and the 1121, sounds very enticing. Thanks for the review.
Second review drop, still unable to make a complete review.
I got another session this morning in very small, fairly slow moving but glassy waves.
I really had fun. The foil does ride/turn/glide a lot like the 1051 when at speed, but with a lot more low end when needed. It has that high angle of attack slow mode that a previous poster referenced. I haven’t ridden a foil that can sustain this type of mode for a long time - way back on some of the earlier GoFoils. I guess all foils can do it on occasion, but the old low aspect thick foils could sustain it with plenty of stability and forgiveness. The code foil feels totally stable and rideable going really slow with high angle of attack and lots of drag - then you get it up to a little more speed and it glides great like a high aspect. To be honest, the ART Pro foils just don’t have this at all.
Pumping it at 95kg on a big 8ft barracuda board is working fine. Digs out of a hole because of the low end, which the 1051 most definitely cannot do. The 1051 just disappears and drops out underfoot as soon as you slow down - you can’t push on it at all unless you are going super fast. Right now, I’m not getting as much efficiency in the pump as I am on the 1121, BUT I think I need to play with the tail. I’ve got a lot of incidence angle on the tail because that’s what the 1121 liked and I wanted to compare directly. Next time out, I’m going to drop down the tail shims and see if that increases the efficiency and see if it effects the low speed lift.
I continue to be excited by the promise of the 860R
Yes the high AoA mode on a foil with AR of 13 is unreal. And if you end up in this mode you can pump out even with sloppy pumping. I use 150AR with long fuse when using this front wing. very user friendly in this setup.
I think the deep downward trailing edge of foil section in the middle contributes to this charactoristic.
Now a few more sessions in. I pronounce that the 860R rides like a 1051 but with the low end of 1121. Its exactly what I was looking for and I’m putting my money where my mouth is (or the opposite I guess???).
A point worth noting - we have already established that the high angle of attack low speed lift mode is super fun and extends both the takeoff range to a lower speed, and also allows to ride slow swell and dig out of a hole pumping. But it is also super draggy. I can notice when taking off on a slow wave it takes a lot more paddle power than the 1121. And while pumping out of a low speed hole is possible, it takes a ton of power until it is back up to speed. Where the 1121 has approximately the same low speed limit, it is quite efficient all the way down. The 860R is kind of fun as you hit the efficient speed threshold you push the nose down and it kind of squirts out from under you rocketing forward. That acceleration is addictive and super fun.
For those who ride Codefoils R series, I highly recommend the new tail 120 or 135, those give more glide and more top speed without loosing too much in low end or turning (at least for the 120).
I’m liking the KD Maui Marlin. I tried the DW Race and its good too. Looks pretty similar in profile to the new Code tails.
A flat mount Marlin fit’s the Code fuse without any issues? Assuming you’re using the 14 Marlin?
Thanks
30mm marlin fits with no issues. I’m using various shims to dial it in, haven’t settled everything yet between the 13" and 14" marlin (I have both) and the shims. Right now I’m riding 1.5deg more tail angle on the 13" but it rides ok with no shims. But I’m going to go back to the 14 next session. It is really hard to make good comparisons because conditions are so variable right now day to day on the california coast. Generally it has been a really fun foil on either marlin with various shims, its really just the pumping that I’m trying to dial in.
What I like with the 120 or 135, is how responsive it is, the pumping is quicker and project you more forward with control. Obvioulsy the top end is better, so you can use the 860R in bigger conditions and the 770R will handle pretty much anyting.
More glide means also even more ability to fly sideways, making those sidewind parts easier, and the R series were already amazing for that, but it is even better.
And the 120 turn really good, I will explore more this tail on the prone surf.
Good to know, thanks! I think I’m sold on trying an 860R!
The 14M is my most used tail. The Code tails also look very nice though and probably have a slightly cleaner mount area (thanks Greg, didn’t know about the 120/135).
You mentioned above you’re using the medium fuse but I’d even consider the long. I’m used to the Foilparts long adapter / !4M combo for my Lift X series kit (turns great for me at 90Kg). When I go back to the Lift 20 carve tail (129 cm2) w/ the extender it feels super short and pumping cadence essentially has to double. Also fun but significantly more work…
Apple and Oranges comparison I guess but does make the fuse decision harder 