Downwind hand paddle vs SUP paddle

The wing blade is cool - I was thinking more symmetrically when moulding shape into our hand paddles. The Kayak blade maybe benefits more from this profile as the way it pulls through the water is different to when two paddles are pulling at the same time??

Update on Hand Paddle use - have stepped down foil sizes and am now using HPS880 (1100cm2) as my go-to for kneeling downwind takeoffs. Can flatwater start the HPS1050 (1500cm2) and PNG1010 (1400cm2), but will just keep the HPS1050 for worst conditions - it’s much better in the ocean than the PNG1010 and can keep up with good conditions if it turns on during a run. Next will be to run the ART999 and then down to ART899. The gap is closing :slight_smile:

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Re wing: I think it depends on the paddle stroke, if it’s entirely vertical then no benefit, but if your hands are moving out and away from the board at all then it takes that outward component and creates extra lift. I would imagine probably too much of a leap as even surf ski paddling with a winged paddle is much more nuanced. If you have some slowmo footage from front or top it might be interesting to see. I often wonder why SUP paddles don’t have wing shape, and I think it is because the stroke is very vertical.

Epic that you can do the 880, paving the way for us non-sup types!

Have you tried any prone pop ups with the hand paddles?

It seems a bit more thought is going into angles and curves. SUP paddles are probably pretty optimised now for how they’re being used.

Prone with Hand Paddles is definitely more difficult than knees, and less effective. You can get speed (maybe a bit more than kneeling), but more important than speed is the bouncing you can achieve from knees. The transition from knees is a lot easier also. From prone it’s easy to catch the paddles in the water as you bring them up under chest. In Botany Bay when it’s very good and steep i’ve managed a couple of prone paddle ups without the hand paddles - had them clipped to vest and saw good bumps coming along so went for it! But i got lucky - wouldn’t set out to do that unless i was on something very long and very narrow.

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I wonder if SUP paddles would be shaped differently knowing they only need to be paddles on one side.

Cool, thanks for the feedback. Would you reckon necessary or worthwhile to spend much time on big 1300 wings doing flat water starts? I’ve been doing the knee paddles a few sessions in small/flat surf and the bouncing and takeoff is getting smoother and easier. Wondering when to progress to wind chop further offshore and what wing to use (axis 880/910/1099/1300)

Im most curious about board size: If you prone paddle, do you need a longer, same size or shorter board (vs SUP DW)?

I’d be getting out into the bumps now for sure :slight_smile: Flatwater starts are a novelty, and certainly not a requirement for successful downwinding. I was doing good downwind runs with handpaddles long before i could flatwater start. Josh Ku asked me a few days ago why i’ve been hung up on flatwater starts - i did it really just to prove the hand paddle concept. To show that it doesn’t have to be a disadvantage to SUP. To encourage others to get into it.
Wing size? Just start stepping it down. I started on BSC1060, then PNG1010, HPS1050 and now HPS880. Next will be ART999 and 899. I’ve come very close to getting going on a boat wake in the river on the ART999 so feeling pretty confident for using that in bumps now. Next time :slight_smile:

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Prone paddling without hand paddles? You could do it with 8’x18" with consistency. I’ve paddled into bumps in Botany Bay on a 6’5"x24"x106L - just happened to come down and paddles were still clipped onto vest when perfect steep bumps came through so i went for it and got up! But I wouldn’t go out expecting to get up regularly without serious board length. But for Hand Paddles it’s different. You can definitely go narrower sooner. I’m using a 6’6"x20"x85L Sunova Elite Custom at the moment but something a little longer would be easier. I’m pretty dialled in now though so short is fine.

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What’s your weight? Yes, I was talking about board length with hand paddles. Thx

I’m 65kg. Helps to be a lightweight sometimes :slight_smile:

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This is really interesting info - thanks Jordan! :call_me_hand:t2: