Up at the lake in North Idaho this summer finally got to put the Flitelab gear through its paces. (Some background) Learned foiling back in 2017 on the lake took it to the ocean over the last 3 years using a tow boggie California Puerto Rico Maui. Started out on all the Armstrong 1880 / 1550v2 into the first HA which was a horrible wing into the HA v2 880ha& 680ha/140 dart shimmed / 60 fuse which is a solid setup. Found that gear really didn’t let me rip turns and created too much lift at speed and their MAs didn’t pump at all. So tried the Flitelab gear and sold everything else when I got back to wifi! you really don’t lose anything by gaining in another aspect of foiling with their gear. The higher aspect 8.5 of their mid aspect is really a unicorn.
If you like to really rip turns and connect 1-4+ waves behind the boat you have to get on their setup. I was able to get 8 waves back narrow stance on the 1010 today really calm conditions no other energy out in the water or wind. The entire setup is so stiff I had to go to titanium m8s on the board connections so it would loosen less. I am pumping further than the Armstrong HA680/880 gen 1 performance 795 mast on the 808 / 1010 flux small fuse 125 tail on the raw 4’0 board all around the wakes and on the pump back to the dock home not as tired and significantly further out. I bet the new Armstrong masts make their wings perform better as well for what it is worth. I like the Flitelab 4’0 board better than any smaller wake specific boards which is surprising but it is so aggressive and stable and you can recover mistakes easier to extend your ride and save your driver from looping around. Was able to restart on the 3rd wave from almost a dead stop on the 1010/125.
Some other tips based on Mastercraft X24:: tabs are key here on the wave setup so you fold the white water out of the waves 1-2 and extend the surf able area see pics for normal port side wave. 12MPH felt fast enough for these wings, they like speed. The 1010 is easier to start. The 707 wasn’t good at all but that thing is a Ferrari and meant for speed and power and is my go to in the Ocean. Could play on the first wave but not worth the time in the lake and fresh water.
Can see mast position on the pics as well I am 83kgs. I tried the 140 tail which is more locked in and fun but once you see the speed and ability to go all over wakes both sides on the 125 it’s hard to go back. Tried a .5 negative shim on the 140 tail which made it faster little more locked in than 125 but you might as well work on progression and go to the 125 tail.
I was able to go 2nd wave starboard side and pump to the first wave port side where I started. The wings are so fast you always need to be turning on the 808 to stay with the wave 1010 stays better in the pocket but still fast. For wave transitions make sure you are riding way back on the wave your on to fish ladder to the next one or you will just pump back to the same wave your on due to the speed of the setup. You can also just turn and plow right through the prop wash to transition it won’t buck you like the gear I mentioned above.
Not affiliated with the brand at all just a happy customer! The gear is nuts.
Thank you very much for your review. It was very helpful to me.
I’d like to ask you a question. I currently ride an Armstrong setup with a 79.5 cm mast, a 60 cm fuselage, an MA MK2 790 front wing, and a 130 tail wing. It turns well enough on waves, but it doesn’t carve very tightly, and it’s quite poor for pumping.
How would you compare that setup to your 707 in the surf? What differences should I expect in terms of turning, carving, and pumping performance?
Sure happy to help! The 707/125 tail 82 UHM / short fuse is a pump machine in the surf. With Armstrong new masts it might solve some of your issues on pumping and turns versus having to go to a new brand. My best advice is to just try to find a demo day or a dealer that has the gear to try it. I owned the 890 MA MK2 Armstrong with my HA880 / 680 v2 before I moved over to Flitelab for prone and tow boggie surf use. If you do tow in and don’t want to really connect waves it’s a great wing a lot of the pros that are team riders for Armstrong say that, probably even better now with their new performance x mast release depending on your weight. I ended up with the 680ha / 140 dart as my daily driver to solve the surf wave connecting issue until I found the Flitelab gear. That smaller span turned good enough for me but in powered up waves down the face you could really feel the lift it created (680HA v2) at speed and my front leg felt a ton of pressure. The 707 is a 8.5 AR compared to the Army MAs 8.0, I don’t know if that extra half point AR is the secret but the 707 was epic for small and large waves alike could rip turns ventilate the tips and connect as many waves as your fitness allows, you never have to manage the turns it just does what you want. The other key thing is how stiff the flitelab gear is and thin the mast is, with the new masts coming out it isn’t the thinnest at 13.5mm but that still really thin. There is a give and a take on flex / stiffness the thinner you go and limit on using higher span wings/AR on thin masts depending on your weight as well. I really don’t think you need to go thinner than 13.5mm on masts unless you are downwind racing. The fuse connection and wings/stab is really innovative and insanely stiff, having less screws coming from Armstrong was great and love M8s versus the smaller ones. I did a comparison in another post side by side a couple months ago. The new Armstrong masts look great and probably solve some of these issues as well.
For Tow boggie sink starts the Flitelab gear from 707/808/1010 just was a smoother start and easier. Same with prone. I was used to giving up one aspect of what I wanted in terms of turn, pump, glide with Armstrong and with Flitelab I dont ever leave a session thinking about what could have been.
I love ripping turns, pumping around connecting waves and haven’t found anything that is as good as the flitelab gear, its made me a better foiler. Ping me anytime, love testing gear. Have a friend with the new Armstrong masts coming into town soon will drop another post.
@Richfoil thanks for the info and review. Definitely have me wanting to test the Flitelab gear now. I primarly wakefoil Armstrong gear and have experienced some of the same issues you’ve mentioned. It sounds like there is a little magic in the Flitelab setup and I really dig the simplicity of their portfolio. Can you tell me what the foil spans and leading edge to leading edge dimensions are for the 1010/125/short fuse setup your riding? Just trying to get a relative comparison as I don’t see much for specs on the Flitelab site.
As a side note for anyone with the same use case on Armstrong, I would highly recommend trying a shorter fuse and smaller tail first if your thinking of switching brands. With a 50cm fuse and Dart 120 red shim I can carve the ha 1080 better on wake than I ever could the ha 880 with a 60cm and dart 140. It just seems to free up the larger wings, plus you get way better pump and glide. At 80kg behind a 23ft mastercraft (~4000lb displacement) I can wake surf half dozen wakes back. I don’t use ballast or tabs and most wouldn’t even consider it a proper sized wakesurf wave. I still use the apf 1350 for dock start and wake cruising but the HA1080-795PM-50cmfuse-dart120redshim just seems seamless and versatile for this use case. Ocean surf is obviously way faster and I can’t speak to that.
Sure will get the gear out and drop some measurements for you. I was actually going to do a follow up after ripping the lake in north idaho all summer. Like anything its conditions based. If it was fresh powder conditions flat no energy in the lake the 808 was epic, I even put the medium fuse on versus the short and really love that as well. You can ride the 808 in less than perfect conditions i.e. like other boats out or wind but you have to really bring the energy and focus to it to get after it. It’s faster and you just have to keep the energy up with carving and deliberate about your wave transitions. The 1010 is insane how far back you can go and depending on the boat set up as well. I found 10-20% of ballast fill and tabs set to step wave was great (mastercraft x24 with +500lbs of lead on port side, speed 12-.12.5mph), any more ballast and the wave was to firm and you just couldn’t carve that great on the first and 2nd, but farther back was epic if you wanted full ballast you just have to get back there right away and have fun. From the gear standpoint on setting it up and tinkering swapping foils and stabs/fuse, you will love the simplicity of it all. Having the main guts of the fuse built into the mast then just 2 front M8s and 2 fuse screws and 2 for the stab with no mallet needed is a dream. Crazy stiff. Make sure to get after market titanium m8s for the mast plate screws, everything is so stiff you need that upgrade on the connection down there and used the 4’0 raw flitelab board all summer, I do have their 5’0 amp board at 44L and had one of my best sessions on that as well. Gear is great highly recommend trying the brand out. If you are on the lake you do not need the 707. Supposedly they have a 1212 coming out. Their 1010 doesn’t feel big at all and on all their gear no shims needed (they do come with shim options), you can but it’s good to go out of the gate with the 125 stab. If you go with a heavier board the 140 stab is great and feels like the 125. I ride the mast way back on this gear, for a while I had it way too far forward coming from Armstrong and it still was a blast, very forgiving flux wings. Riding everything in freshwater right around the 3 dark dots in front of the 5 number in the tracks from the back of the mast plate. And this setup works // translates to all ocean conditions and foil disciplines. Hope it helps will ping you back soon on measurements.
@niklus Here are some pics!! 808 span 85cm AR 8.5 / 1010 92cm AR 8.5. The longer dims on total front to back of fuse stab is the medium fuse versus the short. Id also say one of the main takeaways for me riding this now since they launched their gear is that I no longer really think about managing the foil when I ride in terms of pitch stability / turns and pushing things. You get comfortable on anything over time but this is just different. My progression has really taken off.
If you like dock staring I also moved from the APF stuff over to the new sab “the 1350 blackbird” and it is the best I have ever been on for ease of use + distance. If you try it out make sure to get the 73P mast not the blackbird mast and also get the Short carbon fuse in addition to the medium it comes with. I personally love the shorter fuse. Epic dock start and free foiling set up. Had to add a positive shim with the medium fuse to loosen it up, if you go short fuse no shim needed and using the 325 stab. beach, knee, any type of dock starts crazy easy.
Interesting, thanks! Leading edge to leading edge on the HA1080/50cm/Dart120 combo is only 52.7cm (approx 8-9cm shorter than the 808/short/125 base on your dimensions). So Armstrong 60cm is similar to Flitelab short fuse.
Hadn’t even looked at the new SAB blackbird stuff but you have me intrigued now. I’m in the market for a dedicated pump foil bigger than the apf1350 and I didn’t really love the apf1880 or axis pump setups I owned. Obviously lots of options out there but the blackbird 1350 sounds promising as a general all rounder. Did you order direct from SAB or US distributor? Direct prices seem very reasonable if import costs are manageable.
If you decide to move on to the next thing and want to sell any of this let me know!
I owned the 1080 and 1180 back in the day and had fun with them. Never tried the 50cm fuse with it tho. If you make the leap to Flitelab you will love the 1010 for going way back and the ability to rip turns that comes with it. If you like the dart 120 I would only get the 125 Flitelab stab.
Keeping all the gear really love it all. I bought the Sab gear from Gwen’s site wingfoilprocenter dot com.
