Hi All,
Hoping this is the forum that can help me.
I’m a 59 year old 90kg slalom water skier looking for a new challenge.
Wake foiling has taken my fancy but I don’t want to splash out £1500 for a board/foil setup until I’ve had a go.
I’ve picked up some used wing/wind foiling items for a few £ and I’m hoping to graft it all together so I can have a go.
I’ve got a Moses T60 board, a Neilpryde Flight AL mast, fuzelarge and stab and a Moses W783 (2100cm2) front wing.
I have a small machine shop to machining the Neilpryde fuz to take the Moses front wing was not an issue.
After some research, I went for +0.5deg angle of incidence for the front wing and -2.5deg for the stab.
After around 25 attempts, I an unable to get up on it.
I have carefully followed all the YouTube vids on beginner techniques and I’m already a competent water skier including basic wakeboarding.
All things considered, I’m surprised I can’t even get close to getting up.
My mast is 28" long.
Do you guys think the set-up I’m using is flawed or maybe my angles of incidence need revising?
Or maybe I just need more practice being, an old dog learning a new trick.
Can’t get up meaning you are standing on the board being towed, but the foil is not lifting? Foil size should lift your weight easy around 12kph or above.
Things to try:
Back foot backwards. Should be on the mast.
Add more overall angle to the foil by shimming the back of the plate mount (plastic between plate and board).
Shim the stab more nose down using a washer on the front.
I cant tell for sure but it looks like your rear stabilizer
is at the wrong angel.
Maybe you can shim, it but might be easier to get the right fuselage
Thanks Ajam,
No, I can’t get up at all, for more than a couple of seconds. I can get on he board no problem with the foil removed.
I’ve waterskied for 40 years and although not experienced on a wakeboard, I can get up easily and perform low skill manouvers.
Its probably me but I just thought I’d ask about my setup and angles seeing as it’s a bit unusual.
I’ve tried different foot positions and shimmed the stab to -4.5deg (front wing still at +0.5deg) Didn’t seem to help.
If I buy a Moses (now Sabfoil) fuzelarge, I’ll need a Moses stab and mast too.
I have shims ( home made) so I can vary the stab angle to any suggested. In the picture it’s at -2.5deg. I have tried it at -4.5deg too but to no avail.
I scratch build model aircraft so I’m competent measuring and adjusting he incidence angles.
Pretty easy answer. Spend 1500 and get a setup that works. Trying to piece together different pieces ends up being very complex and not worth the effort.
You definitely get what you pay for in this sport. Sounds like you’re in UK. Look at gong if you need a price point option. They are heavy, but they work.
The board is likely fine at the moment. But boards and foils designed to work together do go better than those that are not. Some work together, some don’t. Does the mast come off of the board at roughly a 90 degree angle to the deck? Then the fuse should be roughly parallel to the deck also. Huge factors in being able to have a comfortable ride.
Even the best machinists will make fuse’s that don’t work right.
While you can certainly set things up so it doesn’t fly well, I don’t think it’s possible to screw it up so badly that that foil won’t fly at all when being pulled by a boat.
Keep on trying, learning to foil (for most people) is really hard.
Can your boat driver foil? If not, find one that can. It’s a huge foil that works at very slow speeds already, and a fairly low volume board - making it not the easiest combo. It’s your own task to keep the angle of attack of your board at a proper angle at the time the foil starts to engage. And it’s the boat drivers task to understand what’s happening and pull with a correct speed when you are ready, and not before.
The mast is at 90deg to the board and 90deg to the fuz.
I am in the UK.
As the throttle is applied the board starts to flatten out and then steers towards the boat rolling me off before the foil engages. A couple of starts have resulted in the skyward launch so the foil can engage.
My driver (and ski buddy) is a very experienced driver and we don’t know anyone in our neck of the woods who could teach us. We’ll crack it with perciverance.
My issue is likely down to more practice needed but I was hoping someone might be able to reflect on my front wing/stab angles just to see if we’re ball park.
The angles on incidence on high aspect ratio front wings is well documented on the web as lots of expert diy’ers are building them but angles for large mid and low aspect wings aren’t discussed much.
Even a mismatched setup will still fly… I once winged a Gofoil setup with the stab mounted upside down .
If the board is launching on you you are probably going too fast and not pushing forward enough. My advice when I teach people behind the boat is to go slow and just try to ride the board on the surface, like a very slow surf board. Then slowly increase speed and start to lean back to engage the foil and lift off. Don’t try to lift completely at first, just try to get the foil to engage a little bit and lift just a little, then push it forward and get the board back down on the water. Do this until you feel the balance point of the foil. Try to fly very very low to the water. Once you can feel the foil engaging, you can start to ride higher. Most likely you are not pushing forward enough when that big foil starts to engage and it is skying on you.
Another tip is stay totally flat. Any roll aspect of the board will mess you up as a beginner. All the steering of the board should be in yaw. If you are rolling the board as a beginner you are bound to tip over sideways.
Also stay out of the boat wake! Get off to the side. The wake (especially with that big foil) will really push the board up and make it difficult for you to control. Wait until you can fly consistently to get into the wake.
I’ve taught lots of people to foil behind my boat. Some people take a while to learn, even those with a lot of other experience i.e. surfing or skiing… Better equipment helps but the power from the boat helps overcome bad gear. It sounds to me like you just need more time and some pointers from someone who knows what they’re doing. Keep at it!
Thanks for that.
I’ll stop worrying about those angles and concentrate on practice.
As I’ve always edged, I guess it might take a bit of time to get used to yaw for steering.
If you have the luxury of having a small boat then stay directly behind the boat, perhaps just avoid the most turbulent water behind the prop. And then just increase the speed gradually until you feel it’s time to make the foil fly. Never start or wander to the side while still learning. It’s way easier if the boat pulls you directly forward, then you can concentrate on the AoA of the board (height control) and not worry about turning at all. If the foil starts heading left or right by itself then just stop and start over, and adjust your feet position so you can apply equal pressure to either side of the centerline of the board. Ideally you don’t need lots of speed and a powerful boat. The less wake it makes the better. And of course, if your board has foot straps then remove these.
Sry, I never film the take off moment while teaching. Safety first. Here is an example of a first time student.
Now that i know what “cant get up” means, the advice above is spot on.
Very typical issue to have in the beginning. Don’t stress about the gear. Just more practice.
What’s helped me to engage the foil without leaning back and getting ejected is to do this: keep weight forward, lift front foot in quick short burst and stomp it back down. This puts a short temporary load on your back foot to engage the foil but keeps your body centred and forward of the foil for control.
If you’ve got a foil shop around you, can you demo a massive sup foil board? We learned on a 130L door which you could start on without moving, then the boat could trundle off and it was very controlled. That board you’ve got looks almost like a kite board sized thing, which would make it tricky, especially with that giant foil moving you around.
Thanks Espitaka, but I’m not aware of any demo options near me.
Some progress to report though.
Went to the lake today and using the tips acquired here, we actually got airborne a dozen times. Managed to stay on the board for around 5 seconds a few times.
Struggled to get my weight forward to keep the foil down so I guess that’s the next steps.
Tried standing further forward but still ended up leaning back and pulling the handle in.
Guess I’ve got 40 years of water skiing instinct holding me back.
Honestly, I wouldn’t try to learn foiling on that gear. And you may as well get the right stuff as now you’ve started you will definitely become a proper foiler as it’s so addictive. So many on here have tried to learn on the cheap, myself included. Just get decent gear from a foil shop. You will save yourself so much time. Your time is a resource just like money. Plus if you get decent gear, you can’t blame the gear when you suck, which is a right of passage for all. Plenty good foiling shops in the UK that will give you the right advice and may even trade in that setup you have for something more appropriate. They often have good second hand gear to keep costs down. Sorry if this is a little brutal but you will 100% not regret getting decent gear. Other sports like surfing and kiting you can get by with sub standard gear, but not learning to foil IMO.
P.s. gong is a cheap option, but the amount of choice can be overwhelming for a beginner, and the durability is often poor. I had an early gong inflatable board to learn on and it was dreadful. Haven’t touched their stuff since but I’m told it’s improved.
.
