I had to take a brake in the middle of beginning to prone. I’m just getting back to work on it and after getting over a little regression, lets say I’m operating like I’ve got 10-15 sessions under my belt. I was struggling with my pop-up for a while (still am) but it’s something that’s getting ironed out with daily dry-land practice. I had a great day yesterday where I was getting some straight rides down the line, but I’m back to some weird stuff I can’t diagnose. For gear reference, I’m 75KG and riding the Lift 200 V2 with 48 Surf. I just got this setup and it’s improved pitch stability a lot compared to the borrowed stuff I was on.
Here’s what I’m still struggling with:
The board is bucking when getting on foil. I’ve got the mast all the way back in the box. If I’m not putting so much forward pressure I risk pearling (sometimes I do), the board always has a moment where it pops up abruptly (standing or prone). I’ve looked at other early learners and their weight doesn’t seem as desperately forward as I am and I don’t see them getting ejected as often as I do.
On more successful waves where I’m up and riding and the board is going straight and under control, it can start to slowly turn on its own. If I try to correct, I run the risk of getting tacoed (learned that the hard way). It’s odd, because my weight feels centered, I am obviously on a straight path, and slowly there will be this turn that builds up.
I’m pretty sure my surfing experience is making everything more difficult. It’s so ingrained in me to throw my weight into things and tell the board what to do. It seems like I have to whisper to this thing and hope it listens.
Use a smaller tail. More front foot. Go where the foil wants to go. Small movements will redirect it. But if it wants to go left, then just go left. You’ll learn to control it the more time you have on foil.
That’s got me confused. From what I’ve read, the 48 Surf should provide a ton of stability due to the huge surface area and long fuselage in exchange for lots of drag. I actually have no idea how the stab affects overall lift. I think of it just as what it’s called, a stabilizer.
I’ve also got a 32 Glide. Almost the same fuselage length as the 48 surf, but reduced surface area.You’re saying this will mellow the pitch out?
I was under the impression a smaller stab will make everything faster and less stable. I don’t understand why the recommendation is a smaller stab for more stability.
With huge foils and stabilizers once it’s pointing in a direction you really can’t change it. So unless you get everything lined up perfectly expect to be tossed.
I learned on the 200 HA with a 38 Surf tail and experienced very similar takeoffs to what you described. What I found helped was moving the mast forward in the tracks, somewhere around the middle. This seems a little counterintuitive because in theory it would make more initial lift, but what I found is with the mast all the way back in the box, I was reinforcing the bad habit of excessive back foot pressure (surfing) and ultimately breaching.
OMG, this exactly! I actually started on a borrowed 200HA and 34 Surf. I had the mast all the way in the back on that setup too and was getting ejected every time.
I was even complaining to my buddies that I had trouble getting into waves because I felt no initial lift at all. Slopey waves were a no-go and I had to try for peaking drops. It just felt like a surfing drop-in and then I would suddenly get bucked off the board.
I’ll definitely try it with the mast in the middle of the box next time I paddle out. I weight 75KG BTW. Not sure if that makes a difference.
Still not sure why the smaller stab would be preferable though for stability.
That’s a big wing for your weight. I’m 215 pounds for reference.
Anyone have a 150 Surf you can try?
Stay away from the punchy waves/steep drops. They’re going to be extremely difficult on that big of a foil. If that’s the only option then let them break and takeoff in the white water.
150 Surf V1 or V2? I definitely don’t have access to a V2. Saw a V1 for sale for like $50. I always thought the 150 V2 was intermediate+
There’s definitely a 170HA I can borrow. Tried that before I got my own gear. Had a little success on it, got me to where I’m at now instead of getting boosted on the 200HA. There might be a 150HA or a 120 around to try.
I’m getting the impression Lift just doesn’t make beginner gear for people at my weight.
What brand board are you riding, and at what size?
As a 93 kg proner, I learned on a Lift 4’6 and 200 Surf V2. I’ve seen beginners your weight learn on the 200 Surf V2, and beginners between us in weight learn on the 150 Surf V2. I see the 150 Surf V2 as a very solid option for you (as mentioned above by @bdavis), but am curious as to what board you’re riding, as its shape/size and tracks placement would affect how the foil is treating you under your particular foot placement
I’m on a Lift 4’4" 44L wing board. I’m not sure if there’s anything to blame on the board here. I know it’s not designed for prone. I have an easier time on it than I did on longer prone-specific boards that were lower volume. Compared to others I’ve tried, it’s a bit more stable, paddles way better, and I can still duck-dive it.
Yeah, this started out as a technique question and somehow changed into a gear thread. Not looking to just keep throwing money at it. Just had some issues I don’t see other people having. It’s not quite “beginner ejecting” and not quite an up-and-riding problem.
I wish I had an area to practice dock starts. I’d be on that all day. I’m in Honolulu and everything is reef here. Only docks I can think of are private property behind a fence.
I said smaller tail because what you’re using is just a lot of foil underneath you. The bigger tail would help with side to side stability maybe. I dislike large tails though.
If you are having trouble on sloping take off’s you’re doing it wrong. Move the mast forward is a good suggestion. Balance up your foil and board. It’s very unlikely a lift setup would ever be at the very back of the tracks.
Ok, will do. Yeah, I’ve heard Lift is already more back-footed than other brands. I’ve always just kept the mast back because that’s what people suggested when I was getting ejected in the beginning. “Keep it all the way back to reduce the lift.”
This is where I’d challenge a few comments from above.
Technique can’t be discussed without gear being mentioned, especially if there’s seemingly an issue that you can’t put your nose on. I agree with powering through and adjusting technique, but when boards within the same brand are built for different purposes, it’s worth mentioning their subtle differences that will affect both tuning and technique. Doesn’t mean it’s not doable with your set-up though.
I learned on a 4’6 Lift prone board with your same 200 Surf V2 wing in the very back of the tracks and had a successful experience. It’s not safe to assume that the back of the tracks on a wing board is the same as back of the tracks on a prone board, even if both are from Lift. If you can see in the scaled photo I’ve included, it looks like a 4’4 wing board has the tracks further up from the tail compared to a prone (by appx 2.75" if I’m anywhere close on this.) In mast placement this surely makes a difference and moving the mast even further up from baseline could be even more challenging than expected. Still worth a try though. I reached out to a buddy who works for Lift to hopefully confirm this tracks placement estimate. Just worth considering! Keep us posted.
When you’re up and riding the foil, look down at your feet. You should be straddling the front foil. That’s why balancing it to the board is so important. (board upside down, lift foil by a single point on the front foil approximately 1/3 back from the leading edge, board should be relatively level with the ground)
Great observation and photos! Yep, that’s my board on the right. I never even considered track placement on the board. That could mean I’m already in the middle of the prone box?
I might or might not have this correct. When I practice pop-up on land, I shoot for my back foot to land just in front of the front of the mast. That puts my back foot over the trailing edge of the front wing. If that’s correct, I don’t believe I’m doing anything different in the water. My stance is slightly bigger than shoulder width.
I did not know this! Ok, just tested. Actually all the way back in the box isn’t too bad. To get perfectly level I’d have to move it forward only 1.5cm. Does that mean there’s no point to messing with wing nuts, just lock it down there, and learn to control the board with the mast in that position?
Now to muddy the water. Earlier, for a few sessions, I was borrowing an Amundson 4’10" 65L Rocketfish wingboard. The thing was gigantic. I used it with the 170HA and 34 Surf. I don’t know if it was the wing or the board, but pitch bucking on that setup was less of an issue (back of the tracks). I remember I did have more trouble over-steering, maybe because the board was very wide and very thick. I wonder if the reduced area of the 170 mellowed out lift a bit though.
I will also see if I can find a 150 v2 to borrow and test if that mellows out the abrupt pop when getting up on foil.
