I make my own boards so not a ton of insight there. I have a big thread on rebuilding a batch of freedom boards
What did you decide to do Darcy?
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Appreciate everyone’s insights. I have been reading everything and mulling it all over.
The cost factor is real. Despite being obsessed it’s pretty hard to justify the $3000 odd dollars it would cost to change brands or upgrade to the new Armstrong mast/wings. Super keen to try things though whenever I get the chance.
I was able to try a friends HS1250 winging on the weekend and it felt so much nicer. Not harder in any way to ride just felt a little slippier. Upped my max speed id ever got winging from 32 to 38km/h flagging out on some head high ish waves(I know that’s still pretty slow compared to what people are doing but quite a percentage increase)
At this stage mostly due to price the temptation is probably still try pick up a cheap HS1250 or a cheap-ish MA1225 maybe or a HA925 (more for prone…)(I realize a bunch of you are saying it’s a really tricky wing)…
There is a Armstrong demo day in Torquay tomorrow though which im hoping to make and it looks like there’ll be wind so hoping I can at least demo something newer ish and will report back.
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No engineer, but Armstrong design seems great at spreading load and allowing a narrow fuse, as long as you bang firmly together. 200 sessions and no play. Sold as A+ mast too flexible and Performance too expensive,
I think the armie connection fit is luck of the draw to some extent. Sometime it’s tight and you have to knock it together to get the bolts to line up - other times the bolts are in line before it’s tight.
I personally bought a A+ 925 setup when it first came out. I rode it once and it was so bad I had to send it back. Just FYI Armie made me pay $350 to ship it back to Hong Kong. If you buy the armie and it doesn’t work out they’ll make you pay out the nose to send it back. Only time I’ve ever felt burned by a foil manufacturer. I’ll never do business with them again(not that I’d want to with that connection slop)
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Sounds and looks a lot like v1 takuma, but first I’d heard of it in army. Why was takuma more famous for it?
Takuma it was worse. Also, the Takuma stuff, when you picked up the mast and fuse, they felt like garbage, especially in contrast to the AMAZING wings. People HAD to ride these wings, resorting to custom parts etc.
If something looks and feels nice, it’s really easy to convince yourself that it’s fine. Especially when you’re highly invested in having a half dozen wings and stabs. Also none of the armie wings have ever been AMAZING
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Takuma taper fit from the fuse to the wing was loose on every single one. The only thing holding the wing to the fuselage was three M6 bolts, which often got loose and then sheared off. Also the mast to fuselage connection was 3x M6 fasteners that would also come loose and shear off. The fuselage connection was made with several degrees of angle to it depending on which version of the system so almost everyone had to baseplate shim either one way or the other to get the system working right. Confusion about shimming abounded because people were saying how to shim but different versions had opposite problems as far as I could tell. I had no end of trouble with the entire system, but stuck with it using homebrew modifications because the 1210 is probably the best all-around front wing ever made (for my weight).
Current takuma kj2 is trash. But wing is amazing. Everything right out of the box screams cheapest possible Chinese construction. They don’t even bother to take the made in china stickers off of everything. The QR code doesn’t scan. The two masts started cracking from day one, and cracked through after a couple months. Takuma did send a replacement free of charge, but I won’t use it ever as I got the nlv2 mast. The track nuts are so cheap, one of them was slightly smaller and got stuck in my apple tree tracks and by the time I got it out, the tracks are almost ruined, I can’t push proper nuts past that point. I didn’t get the 1400 but I wanted to but I can’t trust the connection system. Pump is way better than spitfires but still not great (which is to be expected from an AR 7-8). Despite construction being garbage, it’s the best wave riding wing ever and all I’m riding 8 hours a day on waves until I get my afs silk. Even the 1250 rides waves amazingly well, I love how easy and predictable the wings turn. I just feel like you’re losing effiency to the shoddy construction.
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I have not personally setup the new Takuma stuff. However, I know another brand that even offered Titanium hardware and it had the same issues. So I wouldn’t say that’s just a Takuma problem. Having t-nuts that you can’t progress in the tracks seems like a wider problem.
It seems you are progressing quickly with your current setup. If you’re getting a lot of opportunities to get on foil, you should be fine trying out some ha foils from Armstrong. If you already have the rig, it’s a lot less money to pick up some used front foils. There are also a tone of stabs available that can change your game. The newly released series of 140, 180, 220 and 205 and 235 really work well when paired with the ha wings. Specifically the 205 and 235 provide stability, control, and improved lift.
I have 925/1125 and ma 1225 based on my conditions. For prone I mainly use the 1125 and 235 tail for connections and speed. It’s a pretty stable wing and has a decent stall speed, certainly not super low, but very manageable. The ma turns better, but doesn’t pump well unless I have lots of speed and even then it’s like working an anchor compared to the ha wing. The ma is a blast for winging smaller waves. The 925 is a favorite wing for winging bigger days when I want lots of glide and speed to keep up on down wing runs. With the 235 it pairs well and takes a lot of the pitch sensitivity away. It slows down a little but it’s a nice trade off. I have never prone foiled that wing as we simply do not get the conditions and I do not get enough days proning to do a lot of experimentation. I have had in the past the ma 1475 and hs1550v2 both capable wings for proning or winging light stuff. But if you are on the hs 1250 that is a fun surf wing.
I live in a foil desert so I cannot demo gear or try somebody else’s out. So if you have the opportunity do so. I have had good experiences with my armie gear. The new ha range as mentioned is what Armstrong riders have been waiting for. Sounds like a progression type wing that slows you down but still provide lots of lift and efficiency while pumping.
But I say try an ha 1125 they are fun winging, downwinding and proning.
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id be interested in what uni setup you rode that you hated so much ?
Hey cliff, must be another post. I haven’t ridden the uni gear, but I have heard and spoken to a guy up in chuck town, and it seems magical. I would love to try it out one day. Need more time to travel into Florida for a demo.
I rode the Uni gear for the past year and I feel like the progressions work great for their intended purpose (low energy surf), but other than the progression 125, they don’t have great winging options available. I prioritize a very wide and predictable power range for a winging foil. The progressions have low stall speed, but they don’t have top end (other than the 125). I found the Hypers had decent top end for their size, but they lack some refinement and can be unpredictable and pitchy (particularly the 170). I actually didn’t mind the 190 or 210 as much as lightwind options, but they weren’t “easy” to ride. The P125 is a truly special foil that works great for winging, and pairing that with the H2 190 became my go-to quiver on Uni, and while it worked for me, I feel like there are better overall ecosystems if winging is the focus.
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Hey Darcy, bit of an update here for you. I am just in from my first session on the new HA880 and for me it is an instant level up. On my first wave I instantly started pumping like I never have before and almost made it back out to the lineup for the first time ever. It surprised the hell out of me, but then I did it again on the next wave too. I’m sooooo stoked!! You definitely want to give one a try if you haven’t already had a chance.
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After spending some time on a 680 and 780, I ordered the 880, new performance mast and fuse. I should get them next week. As soon as the 680 and 780 available for purchase, I will own those as well . my reaction to their performance Must’ve looked hilarious.
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Agree completely, I typically wing the prog125 and prone the 170 or wing the 170 in low-mid teens wind.
If you prone in small waves the progressions are incredible, for winging the 125 is the way to go
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Lots of good info there guys.
Work got in the way off me being able to demo some of the new Armstrong gear which I was pretty gutted by.
The new HAs that have dropped so sound mightyyyyy tempting.
But also don’t know whether getting a cheap 925 or 1125 (which there are a few floating around now) would be a good option or whether it’s just making it needlessly hard for my self
I’m on the 72A+ mast and haven’t really heard any reviews of the new HAs on A+ gear rather than the HPM
Cheers Van,
What had you previously been riding and how much do you weigh
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I weigh about 140lbs/63kg. I started proning about 2 months ago on the MA1225, then the MA800 for a bit. I do have the performance mast, FWIW, which feels rock solid as far as flex and connection go. I am a fan of the system for sure.
For the last three weeks or so I’ve been on the Unifoil Progression 140 which is really close to 900sq cm. When I switched from the MA to the Progression, I leveled up big time for sure. The Progression was so much easier right away, and I had some of my first successful pumps. It definitely made a marked improvement in my riding overall.
When I jumped on the HA 880 yesterday, it was the same thing again. I leveled up again and made a huge leap forward in my pumping and control right from the first wave. I’m really excited to see how it goes over the next few sessions. I finally felt comfortable on the board, like I wasn’t fighting to keep my front foot far enough forward. That’s been my issue with all of my set ups so far is it always feels like I can’t get the mast far enough back in the tracks, but this foil finally felt settled and wasn’t boosting me on takeoffs and drops. I’m really excited to see what I can do on this thing, it feels awesome and I finally feel like I might actually be able to do a 2 for 1 before too long.
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