I make my own boards so not a ton of insight there. I have a big thread on rebuilding a batch of freedom boards
What did you decide to do Darcy?
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Appreciate everyone’s insights. I have been reading everything and mulling it all over.
The cost factor is real. Despite being obsessed it’s pretty hard to justify the $3000 odd dollars it would cost to change brands or upgrade to the new Armstrong mast/wings. Super keen to try things though whenever I get the chance.
I was able to try a friends HS1250 winging on the weekend and it felt so much nicer. Not harder in any way to ride just felt a little slippier. Upped my max speed id ever got winging from 32 to 38km/h flagging out on some head high ish waves(I know that’s still pretty slow compared to what people are doing but quite a percentage increase)
At this stage mostly due to price the temptation is probably still try pick up a cheap HS1250 or a cheap-ish MA1225 maybe or a HA925 (more for prone…)(I realize a bunch of you are saying it’s a really tricky wing)…
There is a Armstrong demo day in Torquay tomorrow though which im hoping to make and it looks like there’ll be wind so hoping I can at least demo something newer ish and will report back.
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No engineer, but Armstrong design seems great at spreading load and allowing a narrow fuse, as long as you bang firmly together. 200 sessions and no play. Sold as A+ mast too flexible and Performance too expensive,
I think the armie connection fit is luck of the draw to some extent. Sometime it’s tight and you have to knock it together to get the bolts to line up - other times the bolts are in line before it’s tight.
I personally bought a A+ 925 setup when it first came out. I rode it once and it was so bad I had to send it back. Just FYI Armie made me pay $350 to ship it back to Hong Kong. If you buy the armie and it doesn’t work out they’ll make you pay out the nose to send it back. Only time I’ve ever felt burned by a foil manufacturer. I’ll never do business with them again(not that I’d want to with that connection slop)
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Sounds and looks a lot like v1 takuma, but first I’d heard of it in army. Why was takuma more famous for it?
Takuma it was worse. Also, the Takuma stuff, when you picked up the mast and fuse, they felt like garbage, especially in contrast to the AMAZING wings. People HAD to ride these wings, resorting to custom parts etc.
If something looks and feels nice, it’s really easy to convince yourself that it’s fine. Especially when you’re highly invested in having a half dozen wings and stabs. Also none of the armie wings have ever been AMAZING
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Takuma taper fit from the fuse to the wing was loose on every single one. The only thing holding the wing to the fuselage was three M6 bolts, which often got loose and then sheared off. Also the mast to fuselage connection was 3x M6 fasteners that would also come loose and shear off. The fuselage connection was made with several degrees of angle to it depending on which version of the system so almost everyone had to baseplate shim either one way or the other to get the system working right. Confusion about shimming abounded because people were saying how to shim but different versions had opposite problems as far as I could tell. I had no end of trouble with the entire system, but stuck with it using homebrew modifications because the 1210 is probably the best all-around front wing ever made (for my weight).
Current takuma kj2 is trash. But wing is amazing. Everything right out of the box screams cheapest possible Chinese construction. They don’t even bother to take the made in china stickers off of everything. The QR code doesn’t scan. The two masts started cracking from day one, and cracked through after a couple months. Takuma did send a replacement free of charge, but I won’t use it ever as I got the nlv2 mast. The track nuts are so cheap, one of them was slightly smaller and got stuck in my apple tree tracks and by the time I got it out, the tracks are almost ruined, I can’t push proper nuts past that point. I didn’t get the 1400 but I wanted to but I can’t trust the connection system. Pump is way better than spitfires but still not great (which is to be expected from an AR 7-8). Despite construction being garbage, it’s the best wave riding wing ever and all I’m riding 8 hours a day on waves until I get my afs silk. Even the 1250 rides waves amazingly well, I love how easy and predictable the wings turn. I just feel like you’re losing effiency to the shoddy construction.
I have not personally setup the new Takuma stuff. However, I know another brand that even offered Titanium hardware and it had the same issues. So I wouldn’t say that’s just a Takuma problem. Having t-nuts that you can’t progress in the tracks seems like a wider problem.
I’d argue it’s hard to give advice to you for specific foils when you’re 28 sessions in. More than anything, I’d really encourage you to try a ton of different gear. Try to get 2 day demos (1 hour is not enough time) and just keep an open mind. I was dead set and super hyped on the unifoil stuff until I tried it and I hated it. I had a nagging suspicion that Cloud IX was the right call for me and I waited until I could demo it. When I did, I freaked out and immediately fell in love. It was the right foil for me for sure. So, try a ton of different stuff, new/modern foils, and don’t be afraid to spend money and change brands. Being brand loyal does nothing but hold you back IMO.
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It seems you are progressing quickly with your current setup. If you’re getting a lot of opportunities to get on foil, you should be fine trying out some ha foils from Armstrong. If you already have the rig, it’s a lot less money to pick up some used front foils. There are also a tone of stabs available that can change your game. The newly released series of 140, 180, 220 and 205 and 235 really work well when paired with the ha wings. Specifically the 205 and 235 provide stability, control, and improved lift.
I have 925/1125 and ma 1225 based on my conditions. For prone I mainly use the 1125 and 235 tail for connections and speed. It’s a pretty stable wing and has a decent stall speed, certainly not super low, but very manageable. The ma turns better, but doesn’t pump well unless I have lots of speed and even then it’s like working an anchor compared to the ha wing. The ma is a blast for winging smaller waves. The 925 is a favorite wing for winging bigger days when I want lots of glide and speed to keep up on down wing runs. With the 235 it pairs well and takes a lot of the pitch sensitivity away. It slows down a little but it’s a nice trade off. I have never prone foiled that wing as we simply do not get the conditions and I do not get enough days proning to do a lot of experimentation. I have had in the past the ma 1475 and hs1550v2 both capable wings for proning or winging light stuff. But if you are on the hs 1250 that is a fun surf wing.
I live in a foil desert so I cannot demo gear or try somebody else’s out. So if you have the opportunity do so. I have had good experiences with my armie gear. The new ha range as mentioned is what Armstrong riders have been waiting for. Sounds like a progression type wing that slows you down but still provide lots of lift and efficiency while pumping.
But I say try an ha 1125 they are fun winging, downwinding and proning.
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id be interested in what uni setup you rode that you hated so much ?
Hey cliff, must be another post. I haven’t ridden the uni gear, but I have heard and spoken to a guy up in chuck town, and it seems magical. I would love to try it out one day. Need more time to travel into Florida for a demo.
@Clifford that was my comment actually.
I tried the Hyper 210 and the Progression 170 and they were definitely not my flavor. The Hyper was terrible, I didn’t like anything about it but was told “It’s the ultimate downwind foil”. The progression could be good for the right rider. Crazy low stall speed and the shims were fun to play with. I just didn’t like how slow the top end was. In the Gorge and in general, I like foils that have a little more speed. The progression 170 felt like it was just a super mellow cruiser foil.
I landed on the Cloud IX foils for a variety of reasons but it was just an instant click. They immediately felt awesome for my style of riding (heavy surf/slash tips out winging in the river).
I rode the Uni gear for the past year and I feel like the progressions work great for their intended purpose (low energy surf), but other than the progression 125, they don’t have great winging options available. I prioritize a very wide and predictable power range for a winging foil. The progressions have low stall speed, but they don’t have top end (other than the 125). I found the Hypers had decent top end for their size, but they lack some refinement and can be unpredictable and pitchy (particularly the 170). I actually didn’t mind the 190 or 210 as much as lightwind options, but they weren’t “easy” to ride. The P125 is a truly special foil that works great for winging, and pairing that with the H2 190 became my go-to quiver on Uni, and while it worked for me, I feel like there are better overall ecosystems if winging is the focus.
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I think Velocicraptor sounds very accurate on the Uni stuff. Which, to tie it back into the OP, is why trying as many foils as possible to figure out what is best for what you want to do is so important. I very much have my own style, not chasing other peoples movements, and as such I’m comfortable looking for other brands and educating myself on what I do, and don’t like about foils.
After landing on Cloud IX I ran into someone riding the Lift 150HAX who informed me that his foil would do everything the C9s do, but better (despite not having ridden them). I tried it, definitely not the case haha.
I also got a short demo on the Code 850 this summer and was shocked about how fast it was, but I really struggled to pump it (C9 has a more friendly pump) but I’ve continued to wonder about the Code foils. I pulled the trigger on the 720s and the 770r and some small tails just to have the opportunity to play with some super fast foils and see if I can develop more finesse to my pump.
So, again, try lots of foils. Write notes on all your demos (conditions, likes, dislikes, etc) and you’ll slowly end up with a journal detailing years of experiences in a variety of conditions on a wide range of foils and you’ll be more and more informed about wether or not “the next big thing” might actually be worth your dollar!
One thing I haven’t mentioned, and probably should have, is that mast length has a pretty shocking impact on the foils as well. So, if you are planning on changing mast lengths, note that longer makes the foils turn slower, shorter makes them turn faster. As best you can, demo on the mast length you are used to.
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Hey Darcy, bit of an update here for you. I am just in from my first session on the new HA880 and for me it is an instant level up. On my first wave I instantly started pumping like I never have before and almost made it back out to the lineup for the first time ever. It surprised the hell out of me, but then I did it again on the next wave too. I’m sooooo stoked!! You definitely want to give one a try if you haven’t already had a chance.
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After spending some time on a 680 and 780, I ordered the 880, new performance mast and fuse. I should get them next week. As soon as the 680 and 780 available for purchase, I will own those as well . my reaction to their performance Must’ve looked hilarious.
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Agree completely, I typically wing the prog125 and prone the 170 or wing the 170 in low-mid teens wind.
If you prone in small waves the progressions are incredible, for winging the 125 is the way to go
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