How to go fast downwind

I’m working on a theory of going fast, not because I am particularly fast, but because I haven’t seen another guide and want to start creating a vocabulary around how to go fast. I did have a breakthrough speed wise, and thought about what was involved.

There is a lot in there, please feel free to comment directly if you have something to add, either there or here.

AI Summary below

Going fast is more than just cardio and pumping: it requires careful reading of conditions and a foil setup you are comfortable on .

  • big foils can be easier to manage but limit top speed
  • smaller foils can unlock higher performance, but greater risk of stalling or falling, and falls will hugely slow your overall times

On faster foils, pumping and forward momentum are crucial for going between bumps (“diamonds”) and avoiding dead zones (“traps”).

Mistakes typically happen in two ways: attacking a bump that’s too big and stalling, or drifting into a dead zone without enough speed to escape.

Paddle-pumping and cutting back aggressively are useful skills.

Staying on foil is faster than risking multiple falls with a smaller foil.

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Pretty sure that’s the key right there. Not highest top speed. Highest average speed. Not slowing down seems to be more important than going fast.

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Have big conditions and clean currents -
So many factors involved.

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Exactly, and this proved to be MUCH harder than I anticipated. When you’re cruising, dropping off foil or having the odd fall doesn’t really register, but turns out it happens way more than is useful if you try and go fast.

Finished this

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Great read man!

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Are you talking “downwinding” (downwaving)?

Why are you trying to go fast? When people first started “downwinding” the point was “it’s so pure and free and I’m so connected to the waves and it’s the purest form of foiling…” Then all of the sudden there were “downwind races” which I didn’t understand at the time and still don’t.

If you want to go FAST you need more power, from a wing or kite or something that will give you more forward drive than the waves will. Waves just get in the way if you’re actually trying to go fast. If you want to ride waves unencumbered by extra gear, just ride and don’t worry about speed.

I think the most useful thing you say is maintaining high average speeds which is obviously the fastest way from point A to point B. This is true in most every type of racing.

The point is to not fall off foil. If you can’t do this, then riding speed really doesn’t matter at all.

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Try going fast sometime, connecting the dots aka efficiently putting together a fast avg speed km is a really fun game to play right along side cranking turns. etc. etc. etc.

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this isn’t a clear comment at all, but appreciate the contribution!

people race literally anything that moves, very few exceptions

In good faith, I’m guessing you aren’t aware at all of what the content of the blog post was describing,but here is a video that demonstrates a downwind race (intuitively not wing/kite powered, for now!)

Yes, it’s crazy difficult, requires intense concentration, high skill level, perfect foil control. Going fast is the result, but not necessarily the objective

When people talk about DW speed they seem to be talking about the time to go 1 km as per a GPS track (correct me if I’m mistaken).

This seems a little bit pointless to me as you aren’t measuring VMG, just velocity. Someone doing big looping S turns will be racking up 1.5 km of GPS track per 1 km of VMG.

I know it’s just way easier to do it that way but shouldn’t people be focused on speed from point A to point B and not speed over the course you took to get from A to B?

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Yes, you are correct, which is why you have a race, and a leaderboard. I had something to the effect of your point in the blog, but seems like it was lost in the edit.

The “I can do 2min splits” is a bit arbitrary, I do mention something to this effect here but more about currents than VMG

It’s only hypocritical if you thought it was a monolith initially.

I find that downwind paddle foil with a “racing” mindset vs a “stay on foil- and have max fun” to not be that different. Overtaking on a nuclear day, developing that spidey sense for where the energy is, and all of the tactics (carves/surfing/pumping) to stay up have so much overlap —- that I dont think that much joy is traded-off to cruise vs race when conditions are good.

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Here is a cool comparison

Kane - effortlessly going between attack and rest, and on a 900!

Nick

I swear @kdmaui pumps a quarter of what I pump during these races….

https://www.instagram.com/p/DJSBiegy6Y1/

This is the best footage of an up and over I’ve seen.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DKJQpJVR3cf/

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Watch Nathan Florence current YouTube on sailing a boat dw. Plenty of bump riding going on in that one. :grinning_face:

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ha nice. I was hoping to see them actually downwinding off the boat on foil!

Kane clearly has the knack 1:32 km split is so wild

https://www.instagram.com/p/DL3uEJ_Rlcm/

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That’s almost 40km/h! CRAZY

It will probably get a lot crazier, here is grok description of Dynamic Soaring by radio controlled (RC) planes - “When RC gliders soar behind ridges in fast circles, it’s called dynamic soaring. This technique uses the wind gradient—differences in wind speed and direction between the air masses on either side of a ridge—to gain energy and achieve high speeds. Pilots fly tight, circular patterns, exploiting the wind shear to accelerate the glider by repeatedly crossing between the fast-moving air above the ridge and the slower or still air in the lee (sheltered side). This creates a continuous loop of energy gain, allowing the glider to reach impressive speeds, often exceeding 500 mph in extreme cases.”

Here is video or RC pilot going 548mph just from “taking” energy from ridge wind updraft high velocity air and behind ridge low velocity air

This has applications to downwind SUP as you gain energy and speed going across a wave face and then use that energy to climb up and over the next wave face usually aided by pumping, though one would not theoretically have to pump. This is the same way Albatrosses extract energy while soaring low over the waves in the open ocean. This video explains it very well.

Foil designers take note!! The albatross wing airfoil section is uniquely suited to the high speed and low speed flight. This image shows the different airfoil sections of different birds and the Eppler, a modern manmade airfoil shown as a comparison to the bird airfoils.

This graph shows the Life/Drag ratio of the different airfoils over different angle of attack.

The Lift/Drag ratio corresponds to many performance aspects, most easily understandable is the ability to glide, if a L/D ratio if 5 then one could glide say 100 feet and if the L/D ratio was 10 then one could glide 200 feet all else being equal. The reason the chart is plotted over the angle of attack is that the angle of attack is the same as the speed one is flying, although it is an inverse relationship, so 16 degrees is very very slow, think slogging behind a boat going 5 mph being pulled with your wing 2,000 cm2 wing at a super high (16 degree) angle of attack, then 8 degrees is a doubling though lift goes up the the square of velocity so the speed goes up only as the square root of the doubling of the angle of attack or sqr(2) = 1.41 so 16 deg and 5mph becomes 8 deg and 7.1mph, then again 4 deg becomes 7.1x1.41 = 10mph, then again 2 deg becomes 14mph, then again 1 deg becomes 20mph and 0.5 deg becomes 28 mph. When you drop down to your 1,000 cm2 wing you need to be getting twice as much lift per cm2 of your wing so again life is velocity squared so you would need to be going 1.41x faster than on your 2,000 cm2 wing. This means 16 deg = 7.1 mph, 8 deg = 10 mph, 4 deg = 14 mph, 2 deg = 20 mph, 1 deg = 28mph and 0.5 deg = 40 mph so one can see to do dynamic soaring while SUP foiling one would need to have a good glide ability which means to have a high L/D over a large speed range and this means a over a large angle of attack range from like 0.5 deg to 8 degrees. Looking back at the L/D vs angle of attack chart one can see that only the Albatross wing airfoil section has a high L/D ratio at both high speed and low speed and its also quite thick which is counter to some brands of very thin foils on the market today. Especially at 0.5 and 1 and 2 deg the albatross airfoil is almost 2X the L/D of the other airfoils. One feature all of the bird airfoil sections have that many modern foils have today is a deep and pronounced concave or reflex section on the rear lower surface, although one can see on the albatross airfoil this concave section is very smooth, long and more shallow then deep, and goes from the trailing edge all the way up to about 80% toward the leading edge.

Here is a link to the open source paper where the images were taken from:
https://doi.org/10.5028/jatm.v12.1182

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We are seeing Aspect ratios climb to around 16, these wide span, small surface area wings have very low drag but good lift for take off.
Expect any downwind racers to be on these types of wings now and in the future.