I have a large list running for first grabs at piranhas.
I have 600 already.
745/925 are coming out soon.
787-644-1239 what’s app.
Dylan
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What is the span on the 925 piranha?
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I’m curious what length SR mast Edo was racing on for the voyager race. Judging from the screenshot, I’m guessing it’s the 85 Tuttle.
I think most downwind paddlers use 75 CM mast because they are easier to paddle up. With the skinny chord of the SR, the reduced drag allows you to go longer and keep a similar drag level. The Tuttle only helps too. The physics of popping up a foil with a longer mast is certainly harder on flat water, but maybe less of a factor in big seas, where surface forces/lift are big factor. Balance is easier with a longer mast, that’s for sure.
Once on foil, if you are going for speed and up’n’overs, the extra altitude has to help and eliminate breaches. I know from personal experience PW’ing an 80 cm and an 85 cm, I’ve never breached and wiped out on the 85 going down wind, but I have on the 80. I’m just an average punter though.
The SR mast may turn out to be a paradigm shift in more ways than we expected, challenging old assumptions. Or It’s more that Edo is an absolute hammer and no one in their right mind should try to DW paddle that long of a mast. 
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Oskar did some flat water comparison of mast length ease of paddle up. It’s just his opinion and flat water but he seemed to think a longer mast actually made it easier on smaller foils. Something about allowing for more movement of the foil to generate lift when pumping it up and of course more stability.
I also think for gnarlier conditions the longer mast helps to simply glide above the chop as mentioned.
I also wonder if pro riders can use it to bank potential energy to then deploy as needed for things like up and overs by converting it to kinetic energy (speed).
Edit: for anyone interested in the Oskar video and attaching relevant AI summary: https://youtu.be/9_lJNHlSoFE?is=4fL58CQ9u5HG__rv
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Yeah I watched that video a long while back and I guess my memory was in accurate. Thanks for the correction, as I was sort of referencing that very vid.
So far most video and pics I’ve seen show most people riding with the mast mostly sunken. Of course there’s still an advantage, but transitioning between the two sections must be hell.One video even shows the board pitching forward when the guy starts to sink the wider chord section.
It was just a couple of years ago, Kane mentioned tapered masts being a bad idea.
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Honestly, I don’t really notice the section change when riding any more than a normal mast. Any mast you ride has more drag as you go deeper. The rate of drag increase does go up with the drastic difference in chord, but you tend to be carrying more speed, so the extra drag can actually be useful. I’ll sink it deep at the top of a big, steep DW swell or when I want to start a big cutback.
Maybe as I get more time on it, it will be more apparent and start annoying me, but at this point, it’s all honeymoon phase 
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@Chrisrad99 a friend Erik just got a SR 75 with 685and we tried it back to back with rc 85 and 800 yesterday. His skill level is intermediate annd a little older and he is thinking he is having trouble staying confident with the looseness of the sr. I was brainstorming and other than taking more time to get used to the yaw looseness do you have a recommended for a tail that might give a sr mast more stability in yaw? Like would one with flipped up tips reduce the looseness while he is getting used to it? Any recommendations? I thought it was rad doing the back to back, so dramatically different even though we were in flat water and not able to do any surf turns. Also just out of curiosity we thought we could see a slight deviation of the outside weave about 2inches above the titanium transition to carbon is that about how far it goes up into the mast? Feel free to say no I don’t want to say.
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I’m sure Chris will chime in, but my advice would be to ‘always be turning’. Even a slight turning motion can make it feel more stable. Trying to ride straight and narrow (without balance help from a wing or parawing) will always make a loose setup feel twitchy. Add a slight arcing turn and it will help.
Same thing happens when newer riders get on a Onewheel with a rounder profile tire. Their lower legs aren’t used to the looseness and it can feel really unstable. Add some flowing turns and it starts to get easier, while also building those stabilizer muscles.
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Yeah he has taken it on two ocean downwind runs is good conditions and felt a bit uneasy and less confident. I would want to try it in the ocean too for surf turns in the lake all you really get is those yaw wiggle turns while riding a parawing across the lake. But he did feel more confident on the rc. I liked the feel of the sr in the back to back switching on the water, for sure super cool.
Hi,
The masts with the shorter chords are dramatically different. More so than most would expect. To make the response stiffer, the longer bigger rear wings are the way to go. Check out the 150 or 170 stabs in S length as they have upturned tips. Alternatively the 137/138 stabs are turned down and are much more locked in.
Ride on,
Chris
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Yeah thanks, just wanted to get him on something that might ease the transition for him. Yeah you are right it’s a crazy huge difference first few seconds going from sr to rc it felt like it was fighting me to not turn. I was immediately like give me back the sr please. I’ll relay the tail recommendations, cheers
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Any comments on how your experience on the Hydrocraft mast/foils compares to the F4 stuff?
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I’m still on about a year old proto setup, think it was the first one ever made, the 900 front wing which is semi similar shape to what’s is in production but fuse and mast are dramatically different to production design. The slimness and sleakness of mast, fuse, connection, everything low drag and maneuverable somewhat inspired by Chris. Think my first production setup is arriving at my house tomorrow. So probably best to compare what’s being delivered vs what I’ve had. The crew has had the new stuff for a long time but I never flew to Maui or Oregon to try since I’m at home with the kids waiting patiently. But as far a wing feel the Helix is incredibly intuitive and easy to ride, probably more surfy, the orca is way more high aspect so a better apples to apples comparison would be to the piranha, which seems like Walt was inspired to ask Chris for after he rode the Helix last summer. Both foil brands are pretty awesome and it’s cool to see the inspiration taken from both we all win. Don’t want to hyjack this thread as I was just nerding about Chris’s cool mast project as I had been following that project for a while and I’m a foil nerd that loves gear. Also wanted to help my buddy who needed some advice, think we already found some tails for him borrow to try today. Thanks will report back how it helps him.
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@Chrisrad99 Erik took out a 138 tail on your recommendation for his session today and was much happier, he felt “way way more stable” thanks for the help getting him dialed in
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What does “make the response stiffer” and “locked in” mean here? Are they different ways of saying harder to turn?
Yeah in all directions, up and down and side to side resistance to change of direction. Larger surface area and longer fuse length and probably tail profile/shape can be a variable. Sometimes based on skill level, conditions, type of riding, or just vibe of the day you want to loosen it up or tighten it up in terms of how quickly or slowly you want it to respond. The rider was using a narrow cord mast and wanted to regain some stability that was lost due to narrow cord so Chris’s suggestion of tails was to help with that and it worked for him.
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There are some esoteric discussions on here and elsewhere about the effect of mast drag on tail choice. A short summary is that a mast with a lot less drag is likely going to call for a different tuning on the tail to ride well.
Hi,
The shorter chord on the skinny masts make the whole setup much more loose. It’s dramatic. The super skinny SR mast is another level looser, which really helps turning high aspect wings. The way to add stability, is through directional control - more rudder. The longer fuselages with rear stabilizers that have curve up or down add lots of stability compared with the flat ones.
br,
Chris
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I am interested what is a difference beetwen 137 and 138 tail.Curetnly I ride 137 with Manta 750 and Orca 800-685. Rider weight 95 kg.
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