Hi,
The difference between the 137 vs 138 is profile thickness. The 138 is thinner, so less drag and faster, but a bit less pitch stability. There are two camps, 137 is great at wave riding, 138 a bit faster but not as locked in.
Br
Chris
Thank you Chris, is 138 developed for Piranha exclusively or fit also for Manta? I rode also Orca with surf 137S , got another dimension for turning. I intend to add XS surf tail for Manta and coming Piranha.
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we use it on all foils! buddy here is using it on the hammer head 510! clocking 30MPH on a DW!
really like those tails! very good combo for anything. Then again, all tails work with all foils, depends what you want to get out of your run.
Hi @Zam - Did you get an answer on the above - would love the same a 900 og 1000 option with focus on upwind / downwind in very light wind conditions for 90kg riders 
? By the way - I’m probably the guy Øyvind is referring to riding the Orca 685 and 800 on the 106 mast with the R-board. Not fast - but extremely easy setup which have enabled me to get learning tacks - now no issues with running the wahoo 800 in any transitions. However still need some more really low end foils that are still fast.
@Zam Concerning the Wahoo 575 what are your expireincies with that - I’m considering to buy one but have no options to test is beforehand.
Cheers, Steen
Hi @Zam - Did you get an answer on the above - would love the same a 900 og 1000 option with focus on upwind / downwind in very light wind conditions for 90kg riders ? By the way - I’m probably the guy Øyvind is referring to riding the Orca 685 and 800 on the 106 mast with the R-board. Not fast - but extremely easy setup which have enabled me to get learning tacks - now no issues with running the wahoo 800 in any transitions. However still need some more really low end foils that are still fast.
@Zam Concerning the Wahoo 575 what are your expireincies with that - I’m considering to buy one but have no options to test is beforehand.
Cheers, Steen
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I emailed in a few days ago but haven’t heard back! Maybe someone can answer us here.
i am a fan of the 800 orca, but it’s in a neither-here-nor-there spot for my local conditions. I start using the 575 at a gust of 10/11kts, and the 800 orca can get me going at a gust of 8/9, but not really earlier than that. So I figured the slightly bigger 900 would make more sense to squeeze out maybe 1 more knot of low end to get going. My old duotone glide 900 could do the 5-7 knot range, so trying to find the replacement for that.
Of course, both the 575 and 800 orca can be flown in prevailing 5/6kts of wind, but if I come off foil I’m not getting back up till another gust.
the 575 monobloc is a proper race foil and of course is much stiffer and faster than a freeride wing of similar size. I am not so sure about wind ranges for heavier guys. I have a friend at 93kg who is praying that the more established kitefoil brands start making 700 monobloc foils to cater to riders of his weight class. But the 575, at 80cm wide, isn’t difficult to use whatsoever. Just don’t expect it to turn like a wave foil, it’s going to feel very much on rails and makes going fast in a straight line easier. But for what it’s worth, in the wind where I just barely able to get going on the 575, he is on an 800. At this threshold, rider pumping skill and athleticism will matter much more.
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Just wondering Chris - any plans for a 80cm RC mast? Us proners would love that option!
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I have been out on the Orca 900 the last 3 sessions on parawing and the 82.5cm tuttle mast. At my home spot there is a flat water area before you reach open ocean waves, so I tried a few runs with 4.3 parawing. Felt all well and stable clocking 23 knots @ 2 sec. Wich I would say is good for a wing with that span, and low end.
Currently the 900 is my do it all front wing for parawing.
The 12mm 82.5 tuttle mast works very good with the 900, and my now 86kg.
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That’s great! I think the specific use case in question is whether the 900 orca can be used safely with the 106, 107 and 108 masts. No doubt it works well with the shorter ones.
Hi @Zam - thanks for the fast response - let’s see if someone tips in; could be nice to get going in few knots less than today which for me is around 12-13 knots on the orca 800 with a 6m2 and the R-board 90L. Most of my fellow wingers are on the ML and start as you around 9-10kts on 900-1100cm2 monobloc foils. In my local spot this year this give quite a number of additional training hours on the foil instead of endless pumping sessions 
Which size board and wing are you using to get flying in those low wind speeds?
If its a consistent 4-7 knots (so this is where an average-skill ILCA or Optimist would be moving slow-ish but comfortably) and I’m not sure I’m going to fly at all, i’ll use a DLAB Ventis. I fully admit that in this kind of wind, it’s easier to have a giant pump foil and a downwind board than try to go up wind wing sizes. 4 knots was also the bare minimum wind (according to the boat driver’s windmeter) I could stay flying in when towed onto foil by a powerboat and then letting go of the cable, so that’s my reference point. When its 8-10 knots and I’m trying to go fast, I have a 7.3 fusion v2.. but 8 kts is really not realistic at my skill level to take off, its really closer to 10/11 kts (with the dual skin at least). with a 6.5 (totally doable) or 6.0 (harder but doable)single skin unit, 10kts is fine for the 575. but i am used to pumping and putting in a fair bit of physical effort when winging. (caveat - i am in my early twenties)
I am using a secondhand, older design 90L Attack with the 575. it doesn’t have tracks which is why i started asking about the 900 orca… the point is to have a recreational option to use without having to buy a second mast. And from my experience with other foils, once you go above 100cm span on the front wing, you start making compromises in other areas, at least when winging.
I just got the 688 hammerhead and I’m in the middle of back to back comparison with the orca 685/800. I was really hoping it would have the speed of the 685 with the low end of the 800. So far seems like maybe true, but with the downside of it also has the big span wobble of the 800 too, which is a bummer, but workable. Will post up again after a few sessions.
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Which mast are you testing with?
I have a TX 75cm Tuttle which is pretty similar to the AX. Not as stiff as I would like but it works
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Hi again @Zam Thanks for the additional information. sounds like the orca 900 could be a potential option - if you go that route please let me know the outcome From your description I think I’ll also consider a singleskin large size 6,5-7.0 (and perhaps dualskin next season). Funny that you have the Attack board - I have been looking at a 100 - 105L Beast version 
Let see if others tip in or if you take the go on the 900 orca. Cheers, Steen
Hi ,
Just want to add that the whole concept behind the design is related to smaller more powerful wings. The design is focused on turn and gliding. This is made possible through combination of a medium camber profile with a high aspect outline. Take off is related to the profile camber and the surface area. There is no substitute for surface area for extreme low speed take offs. A 2200 wing will lift off a bit earlier than and 800 orca, however, the difference is quite small
Br
Chris
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(I posted this on the ‘ideal parawing board thread, but thought it belonged here as well)
The Emona is a great shape! I finally had a good session on my 75L Tuttle version. I’m only 68kgs, so this board is a 1.1x ratio, much different than my 58L mini Dart that I’m used to. I was really worried that a positive volume board would be too corky or hard to balance on, especially being a quite rockered out 6’ long x 19” wide shape.
My fears were unfounded, as the board has really great purchase in the water and feels very stable, yet nimble. It also doesn’t feel anything like my old v1 85L 6’3” Armstrong board that I used from time to time learning to PW. This boards rocker definitely allows for active pumping while gaining speed or tapping into a swell to get on foil.
Today’s session was kinda 
with shoulder plus windswell sets and upwind angles that had me teetering on the edge of disaster with my toeside tacks veering at an acute angle to the peaks. I lost count of how many times I tagged my upwind rail on the tops of swells going Mach 10, one handed and hooked in on my 4.2M BRM S3, well overpowered in 25mph+ gusts. The board never once spilled me. Couldn’t believe it. On other boards, they have the tendency to get knocked away and leave me airwalking. Another time headed upwind, I had to pull an emergency gybe on a big swell to avoid a big dark shadow, hooked in, and I sank a rail to the point my front heel was in the water and the board didn’t even hiccup.
Going downwind, it surfed great. No complaints there. Feels so much smaller than 75L. I’m not sure how much of that is the Tuttle or the shape. Rebounds off the water were next level - bouncing/pumping back onto foil after bad decisions is really nice.
I really do feel like parawinging has pushed both foil and board design towards peak efficiency to allow us mortals to surf downwind. Great job @Chrisrad99 and crew!
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Anyone tried the piranha 925 yet and how it compares to the orca 900? I am curious about speed and especially low end on that wing.
Yep I’m really curious about a comparison between 925 Piranha and 900 Orca as well.
I currently own 800 & 1050 Orcas and want to fill the gap with one of the above.
Pretty much just for downwind (sup or parawing)
I loved the speed and glide of the Orcas from the very first try (for a foil that still handles and turns reasonably well)
Whilst I can see the Piranha would be more surfy and fun, as a 60+ year old I think the extra speed, glide and ease of keeping up with ocean swells of the Orca might be still the way I go.
we have some samples for the core team arriving now.
F4 and us.
As we get more time on them will let you know.
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