Based purely on the xfoils podcast I bought 3 orcas and 3 mantas and the 85ax 6 months ago. I am 93kg and 90% parawing - uk based. I love the 800 orca and 750 manta. The 685 orca could have worked for me, but I don’t often get powerful conditions. The 635 manta was too small for me for my conditions. I didn’t need the big manta and orca. I also switched from the 85ax to the 85RC as the ax was too flexy. I run the 135s and 137s - switching between. The 800 orca is my go to for parawing 90% of the time. I did a gorge trip recently and got 4 pumping Rufus days - I strongly prefer the orca out there, although for sure I was very maxed on the 800 (prob where the 685 would have worked as someone here pointed out!). The 750 does work very well for me provided waves are starting to break.. it was great on the steepest sections in the gorge, but felt slow most of the time. I love the 750 for winging - but does feel a big at times when waves get overhead.
I would really appreciate help on a couple of things from anyone with experience of these 2 foils:
Piranhas - I am very interested in the 744 piranha - there is quite a big gap between the 800 and the 750 for me that I try to close by switching between tails, but that isn’t really enough. How does the 744 perform by comparison to these foils - for example does it literally sit in the middle in terms of the low end / glide / roll / top end? Or is it closer to the manta or orca side on each of these? And how does it compare size wise to both foils?
SR mast - I would also love to hear from anyone who has used the 80SR mast that is in the in same weight category (90kg+) - the 85AX was not miles off for me with the 800 (ie worked some of the time depending on water state etc) - is the 80SR going to work for me?
Hi again again @Zam Forgot that I have the F4 Cobia 870 which I used quite a bit last season with my f4 Makani 7.3 semidual skin. It’s not the fasted to get on foil (orca 800 is faster/easier) but once up it keeps flying. Up/down wind it’s really good and has better speed (incl. VMG) than the Orca 800. Perhaps I’ll put it back on now that I have improved my pumping skills quite a bit Cheers, Steen
I promised I would update the thread. I’ve been rotating orca 685/800 and the hammerhead 688. Right now I’m not getting along so well with the 688. On the data side of things, it is just as fast and maybe a bit faster than the 685, but it feels so much less locked in because it is a less stiff wing. Pumping is significantly more tricky than either the 800 or 685 only because it is knocking me all over the place to keep it going where I want. But I CAN feel it is more efficient than either of the Orcas.
The lack of stiffness is a real problem for me with the 688. I don’t have a stiff mast, but the mast is working better with the 800, which has a very similar span. So I figure it has to be the wing flex. That said, I’m guessing that with the SR or RC mast it would bring enough stability back to make this wing work for me.
Takeoff speed is somewhere in between the 800 and the 685.
Without going to deep into everything, I’ll summarize by noting that my favorite of the bunch by far is the 665 Orca. It is so stable, fast, and maneuverable. Just a joy to ride. I’m SUP foiling waves and downwind at 95kg+wetsuit and gear.
I’ll probably have to try the hammerhead 585 and see what happens. As you can imagine I really didn’t think this size would work for me. But who knows.
If you can make the 685 orca work the 585 hammer will work. I trust the 585 hammer is weaker conditions then the 685 as it’s just effortless to keep on foil. Im not paddling it up, so this just up on foil.
Hey @jondrums what mast are you riding? Appreciate the review. Planning on getting an F4 kit around the beginning of 2027 (our season is just about done and I don’t know if I will be able to travel over the winter).
I don’t know if its for sale any more, it isn’t on the website. Its a 75cm TX, which as far as I can tell is very similar to the AX, but tuttle version.
It’s a pretty sweet mast honestly. I really don’t mean to talk down about it. I’m just on the big side and really prefer stiffness. But the drag profile is quite nice - skinny and low chord.
@Stony500 yes, the cobia is older than the wahoo 800 (i believe it is dated mid 2023).
I just find it weird that nobody from the f4 team is responding to this. it’s quite normal for there to be limitations on front wing span versus mast length. you just need a disclaimer on the product webpage about intended use and where warranties will be voided due to improperly mixing and matching the parts. i dont find it THAT unreasonable to want to use a 900cm^2 front wing on a long race mast. i would totally understand if the massive 1050+++ wings don’t work on it. oh well, sometimes no answer is still an answer!
yes, that the 870 cobia takes off later than the orca 800 tells me that the orca 900 would indeed make the most sense for recreational use in the absolute lowest end, thank you!
Huge congratulations for the results on M2O and M2M.
And also Sean Herbert claiming 2nd in Wingfoil World Cup Calabria, and 3rd in Gdynia World Sailing Championship. All on complete F4 setup, board, foil and double skin wing.
In the last event Klara Chalupnikova also got 1st, on F4 foil.
So stock F4 foils on the podium both in DW and Wingfoil racing within the same month.
Don’t think there is any other foil brand that have foils that have been on the podium in both DW and Wingfoil racing.
Cheers, Steen
