Man, it’s all just numbers. As far as surf foils go the code S and the progressions(def the evos) are pretty high - which is what most people want for their bread and butter surf foil (a little high for me TBH) so this is just slotted in as a step up.
These new mids are mostly about giving someone on a 980S as their daily a step-up. With the right skill and physicality(or e assist!) these mids CAN be someone’s daily in regular waves - but that’s not a ton of people. 100x more code 980s riders will buy this as their step up than non code riders will buy as their new daily.
For prone foilers You buy into a brand for that daily driver - the step up is just whatever they also have that makes sense.
I DO think people should be more granular with that daily driver. Everyone makes a good foil and they all work about the same so it’s pretty easy to say “I want more than 900 to dig out of the hole and the 10 AR is a little too much span let me dial that back to a 9AR at 900 ish so which foils are that ok let me ride whatever brand has THAT” but I don’t think that number is an 8AR for a ton of people.
For the vast majority of users, no modern wing is making any other modern wing redundant. They’re just for different things. In the prone realm, X is for anyone who likes the S series but thinks to themselves “god I wish this turned a little better, and I’m willing to work harder on the pump as a price”. It’s not that deep guys…
This is spot on, I have the 980s and 850s. The 980 I can go forever on, like 15 mins plus on the right day in the surf, the 850s is more like 5 mins. I got a 810x hoping I could pump a similar amount to the 850s and turn harder, it delivers, an added upside I wasn’t expecting was how loose it stays at way higher speed.
In my opinion, this is the thread and I stuck to relevant aspects.
I didn’t understand your point when you started, and I did after your prior comment, which is that Flite have unlocked turns and not lost pump, and Code haven’t cracked it, which I disagreed with in my point 1. Flux could hurry up and we could all test but here we are. My contribution on this thread is entirely about truth seeking. The reason I don’t ride for a shop to get trade price gear is so that I can inform, take an opinion and contribute on the forum with a clear conscience (and entertain myself). To be clear, no one has offered! But I did the shop thing before and it’s lame to have to keep quiet.
This is misreading my intention on what I felt was a very good faith, truth seeking and considered reply.
I think it’s a fair question to ask to see some attribution on a hot take opinion.
You clearly think “the grail” is possible, evidenced by Flite, but you have made it clear you don’t think Code have done it (having not ridden one). That is potentially damaging, and so me pushing on that point, in my opinion, feels entirely fair. I don’t care for most opinions on foils because most people don’t surf so they don’t at all know what they are talking about when they say “feels surfy”. You evidently surf, so I am interested in your opinion and ability.
And I think, as we know, 99% of capable informed opinions online have undisclosed motivations. I asked for specifics to get to the truth, if you think that’s aggro or ego then whatever man it’s a forum, arguing to find the truth is the point. I don’t ask because I think I can pick you apart, I shared footage of myself which frankly is cringey but it’s in the interest of people knowing the truth of who is behind the opinion. (worse is how shit I am at surfing after a lifetime of it)
(Fwiw Tom rides the 650, 750 and 850 appropriately,I checked)
I think the very simplest way I’ve settled on this is that I have to acknowledge a split in the MA foil capabilities. Some will be suited for low end or weak conditions (which is how I felt the Code X landed and expect KT and the Flux to feel) and will allow you to size down if preferred. While others, like the Silk, are more about being fully powered and will want to be sized up if you do a direct comparison.
I chased the sizes down low for a few years and now that I couldn’t care less about the number, and care more about the experience of the foil, I’m a lot more at peace and don’t feel the need to chase new designs so much.
There’s no way the flux pumps better than the code. The flux has a crappy connection system, whereas the code is monobloc. Monobloc Is always better than a crap connection system
No I have not, this is just my opinion and I’d say the same about any non monobloc system that claims it pumps better than a monobloc system, so it’s not directly aimed at flux
Why do you think the FLITELab connection is crappy? Have you even seen one in real life? Most people that have ridden it have commented it is the stiffest foil they have ever ridden. A couple of people even claiming it took some getting used too as they thought it was too stiff. Our mast is monoblock instead of the wing. Could argue that any fuse to mast connection is not as stiff
Again just to keep you on the straight, I have a very high opinion of the code offering. I am an aussie after all and would recommend them as first choice for anyone with multi disciplinary intentions as probably number one and particularly for those over 80kg.
Based on the talk in my circles Flite will win a lot of hearts for those that want the best prone specific foil to push their prone game to best they can do with the time and ability they have.
Me, I am old and as such have nothing to prove. To be prone foiling from the start in my part of the world has been an unbelievable privilege and has given me so much. Its only the incredible people and the experience of that early inclusive culture that is worth talking about. So refreshing for me as a life long daily short boarder.
Its should be easy for you to tell who knows what they are talking about as it is easy for me.
I have had a year on the 850S/720S Sml Fuse, 150AR, had around 40 sessions on the code 810X Sml Fuse, 150AR. 85kg Advanced level prone. I have mostly proned it, FD’d it twice, and winged it. I personally feel the 810x all-round pumps better than the 720S, the 720s pumps better at a high exit speed because it’s more efficient. I can easily get 5 for 1’s on the x and pump long distances to waves far away. It’s clear it’s not going to pump better than the 850S. I am also finding that the 810x has the range of the 850S/720S foils combined, the 810x being able to surf 1foot to well overhead without getting out of shape.
The major area I feel the x falls down vs S series is when you are pumping or FDing into a wave really early, or winging in weak bumps the ease of glide isn’t there and you need to work the foil more.
Benefits of the X
Way more stable, especially in hairy winging conditions.
That stability means it hits the whitewash much better; I’m trying and doing things I couldn’t on the S.
So much more manoeuvrable in all different parts of the waves, especially steep sections.
Each time I’m out on this foil I enjoy it more.
It pumps fine for what I’m looking for, I’m sure it’s probably improving my pump and fitness as it’s more effort than the 850s.
I was about to jump ship to a sk8, the X was exactly what I was looking for and super happy Code brought this out. I sold the 720s and will keep the 850s for the bumps or micro surf.
I have to take back my previous statement that the connection system is garbage. I got to use the flux 707 today for some waves tow foiling and here is my review on how it compares to the silk. In terms of turning they are pretty similar, you cant compare the 650silk to the 707 anyways, but to me every mid aspect wing turns good, to split hairs on which turns better is perhaps subjective, unlike what pumps better. The main difference i noticed on the 707, that it has a better low end for pump. The silks pump faster, but they have less low end and dont give you much of the pushing up feeling. Whilst the 707 pumps better and has a better low end than the silk, the efficiency of the pump didn’t feel nearly as good as the code S. It actually reminded me of how the axis foils used to feel when i would pump, its been years since ive rode them, im not sure if it reminded me of the art v1 or the spitfire pump. Again its nowhere as good as the code S, but its feels better than the silks pump, which i would rate as very bad to pump and very little glide.
On the wave, the 707 had more glide than the silk. The silks need to have wave power or they drop off like a rock, the 707 felt almost like it had the glide like the Code S. So overall, the flux has more glide and pump than the silk, but obviously not as much as the code S. Because of the fact the flux pumps and glides better than the silks leads me to think that it wouldn’t handle big waves or turn well on bigger waves as the silk. The reason why the silks are good for towing larger waves is because they are draggy, the opposite of pump and glide. I think the tuberclues are just a gimmick, and they are only there to make the setup draggy, which is a good thing for larger waves. The larger silks (850/1050) to me are just completely useless almost, because if the conditions are too small to use the 650, going to the 850 is just so much draggier and slower that its not the right solution, instead you have to goto a HA wing like the code S to ride a smaller wave.
Another thing that I remembered about the silk is that it makes a concerning “crack” noise every few times per session when I pump really hard. Its the exact same cracking noise that I had on my takuma kujira2, but less severe. I dont ride the silk enough to the point where the crack will eventually result in failure, but surely, the cracking sound is not good. I have never heard a crack on my codes, and there was not a cracking noise on the 707.
Guess it depends on your definition (and type) of “smaller waves”. I haven’t tried any of the foils @Meow mentioned, but i also prefer the faster 1000cm² AR10 over the slower AR9 1100 in very small weak waves and for shore runners. For more punchy hip to chest high bowls, a 900 AR9 wins. For clean large open faces and drawn out carves 710cm² AR10. For survival, steep drops and staying near the pocket on big days, 840 AR6. Would love to try an 800ish AR8 for the same conditions.
100% certain that cracking noise is a loose mast track box, not the foil
iirc that @Meow is mostly towing and mostly in Indo and I assume wrongly or not mostly on flat open faces so not in the pocket which is the point of surf foils, which would explain the sentiment.
I believe that the point of Surf foils is to be able to stay as near to the steepest breaking part of a wave. This is a simple statement. But says a lot.
If you aren’t surfing in the pocket, you need a bigger AR foil because there is less push.
If you are surfing in the pocket, you cant ride a bigger AR foil because it is doesn’t slow down and doesn’t turn
Size appropriately bigger smaller etc etc but the dynamics are the same.
100%. In namotu swimming pools, the waves are small and shallow and the 850silk worked like a dream although you could also use the code, but code is better when the wind is offshore/hurting your glide. In indo, where it’s deep water and the bumps are moving fast and there is no face, the larger silks are completely useless as they are too slow and have too little glide to ride the deep water swells that are not steep. You need the higher ar stuff to ride those.
I spent a few weeks towards the end of Hood season riding the newer mid aspects across a few brands and really loved them.
I then had a little end-of-season rest period where I didn’t foil at all, and now getting back into the water proning & tow boogie (waist to sometimes overhead beach break). I decided to ease into things with my trusty 850S, and damn it felt so foreign to me. Decided to just try out my fresh 810X and see how things felt, and it immediately felt so much more comfortable. Not just cranking turns, but surprisingly also felt more natural to pump on.
I don’t know if I’m just used to the feeling and cadence required to pump the surf wings now, but I went back to the 850S to be sure it wasn’t just shaking off the cobwebs - but sure enough the 810X still feels nicer for me connecting waves… I can’t wait to try the other sizes.
PS not saying this is a magic bullet. The 850S definitely feels like I could maintain more stamina on the pump - but it just felt weird. The 810X takes a lot more gas, but the pace & cadence feels more like home…
Has anyone gone from proning a lift 120 ha (probably much closer in feel to a 720s?) to the 810x? I know this has been rehashed in many ways in the thread above, so I’m guessing the conclusion is:
Lower top speed, more responsive (also because you won’t be on an old lift mast), maybe a different type of “loose,” and less glide or more feeling of drag overall on the 810x?
Can’t compare directly 120–>810 but I can directly compare 120–>720. Which I think it’s a lot better comparison. Like I said I have never ridden the 810 but trying to compare it to the 120 to me wouldn’t be a fair comparison. The 120 is great but I wouldn’t say it’s a surf foil. It’s a HA foil that turns pretty well but it’s not supposed to be ridden hard and in the pocket in my experience. I am planning on grabbing either the 810 or the 740 in the next week of so from my local shop so if I can get some time I will try to tie it back to the 120
