Pairing tails with Unifoil (Prog and H2) - winging

Foils and Boards - Gear Talk
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I’m winging with the Uni foils (P140, h2 170, 190 and 210) and I’ve found that the Takuma 178 pairs much better for me than anything else I’ve used, including the 13” tail pack, Marlin and Uni race tail (chopped to 13.5”). The 13” tails and Marlin both dive when very powered even with a good amount of shimming (up to 2 degrees), where the 178 maintains composure through a wide range of power, with front foot pressure ramping up smoothly as power increases, and it never really drops out.

Ive actually has a couple of amazing sessions on the 140 and Marlin, but the conditions were within a narrow power range. when that setup gets too powered it has a very hard top end and it starts to dive. I can kind of counter the diving with some back foot pressure but it’s awkward and doesn’t feel right. I haven’t found this top end with the 178, which has a much more forgiving range. The hypers just aren’t playing nice with the Marlin - at least with any of the tunes I’ve tried, but they are great with the 178. The Race tail doesn’t have the same pitchiness characteristic but it just feels kind of slow and primitive.

Anybody else notice this? Is the 178 just slowing things down so that I’m not hitting that pitching point (speed doesn’t feel too much slower but maybe), or is the size just stabilizing it?

Ideally I’d like to open up the top end and loosen things up, but without the pitchiness at speed - particularly on the smaller foils (p140 and h2 170). If I like the 178 should I try the 158 or is the diving characteristic more a function of the tail size (in which case the 158 might not work)? What other tails do people like and how are they tuning them?

The setups that work best for me:
P140, 0-0.5 degree shim, 178 (Marlin too but only within a narrow power band)
H2 170, 1.5-2 degree shim, 178
H2 190, 1.5 degree shim, 178
H2 210, 0.5-1 degree shim, 178

my sense is that the range of power im trying to get out of the foil during a session with a single setup/tuning is a bit unique to winging, whereas prone has a more banded power range for a given session.

Thanks for any and all suggestions/ advice!

@Clifford @Erik @KDW

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I also love the 178 on the progression foils but it does slow them down. The progression tail is coming out very soon and it has the stiffness and responsiveness of the 178 but much more in the speed range of the marlin, which I love downwinding. But the progression built to surf and stay very pitch stable through the speed range. Took a while to get it right. It’s faster than the 178 and the 3-pack tails. Almost as fast as the 13 marlin. There is a 13.5 and a 14.5. I use both. If you look at my last few clips those have been on the new tails. The one I dropped today is on the 14.5 and 170p.

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Thanks a lot @Erik - I’ll have to get on the list. If I’m feeling this pitchiness would you suggest the larger size?

It’s kind of counterintuitive since I want the top end, but I guess increasing the size of the stab will tune out the pitchiness at speed. Maybe I’m just “under-stabbed” at the high end of the power range and that’s why something smaller like the Marlin works with less power?

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I’m not a great winger, but I find I’m not trying to draw super tight lines on the wing and like a bit more stability. Tom Earl is riding the 14.5 on the 140 in some big conditions and loving it. His plan was to chop it as he likes really small stabs prone, but he wont do it cause he likes it so much winging.

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Thanks for starting the thread. I’m also winging the 140 with short fuse. Love it on ferry wakes but a tail option for more directional stability would be appreciated for days when focus is on long reaches across the SF bay at closer to 20mph.

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@Velocicraptor - when you bolt up your 178, are you at 0 degrees? How are you shimming? are you using the Uni shims? Thanks!

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Im shimming the 178 (see OP for my preferred tuning with various wings). I just use random 3D printed sliver shims Ive accumulated over the years. The mount surface on Takuma tails is very slightly convex, so there is a very tiny gap when you use them with a flat mount fuse like Unifoil. As long as you tighten both of the bolts equally it works just fine. I have a little zero shim adapter specifically for Takuma that I got from foilparts, and I could stack this with an angled shim to avoid the gap, but I don’t notice any difference and I’m too lazy to bother with it most of the time.

The Uni shims don’t work with many aftermarket tails. I can make them work with the Marlin but nothing else (other than Uni) works with them.

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Thank you! Can’t find your OP, can you post up a link?

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gotcha, I was looking for a photo. Pumped to try this tail out - has always been one of the best!

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@Velocicraptor Just did some science in the garage - these are my findings:

  • I put a level on my medium Uni Fuse (the one I got from my Progression kit) and got it plumb
  • Found the same foilparts bit that takes out the concave and allows it to mate to a flat mount surface
  • I then took an angle meter and sat it on the 178

Then, blew my mind…

(I’d like some room for error here, as I’m not an engineer…)
The 178 is a crazy good tail, def my favorite, and pretty much makes everything it pairs up with more fun. I think I might have figured out why, and also might provide some insight as to why it might seem like its kinda sorta slowing things down, while making everything just feel great.

While the fuse is flat/zero, the back of the tail is also zero, BUT, the front of the tail has enough material taken out of it where the leading edge is running prob one degree or so of built-in shim. Little lift, little front foot pressure, little drag = stupid fun, but it might just knock off a touch of efficiency, but not the same as if you shimmed the whole thing a degree. I think that’s the tail’s secret sauce.

Anyhow, pretty cool experiment, and stoked to see what it feels like with the Uni stuff.

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Its funny that you did this. I was just eyeballing the tail this morning and I noticed the exact same thing. You can actually see the built in shim in the angle between the upward-facing surface of the tail, and the mount surface portion of the tail (hard to explain, but if you have the tail in your hands its not hard to see). The foil section also has a ton of profile built into the downward facing surface of the tail.

It rides great with the Uni gear. Definitely try it.

I just ordered the progression 14.5 sight unseen. Would love to try the Takuma 158.

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How’d you order it? Its not out, did you just ask a local shop?

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Shop orders are in (guessing its the same order as the P125) and supposedly they will arrive in shops in the next ~10 days. Wish I could see one!

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What’s the deal with the 14.5? New tail? Any details/links on it?

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wow ok this is the first I’ve heard of this. Wish uni would just add the damn 125 and tail to their website for preorders already!!

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Looks cool to me, I saw some pictures of it on instagram stories that Unifoil reposted to their story. I think it’ll all be up on the sites August 15th ish. Its the Progression tail wing.

It looks similar to the KD R series tail but made of Carbon

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Yep chased it up with a local shop after seeing that post and confirmed they have the new wings and tails on order hopefully for the 15th but no more info than that.

@Velocicraptor what made you go the 14.5 vs the 13.5? I’m currently running the 13" Shiv with 0 Shim.

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Thanks for this post really helpful. I have found the same thing with Vyper 90, Hyper 1 150 and Hyper 2 210. They all start diving with the uni race 18 and marlin. I have been racing all these foils in the UK and find I can only push them so far on speed before they dive or ventilate. This isnt really surprising considering I have been using them for something they are probably not designed for. All amazing foils and love the marlin paired with the 150.

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