Prone board vs mid-length

Foils and Boards - Gear Talk
1

Hi all,

New here, glad to be a part of the forum!

I would like to get a sinker board and would appreciate your assistance with the selection. Unfortunately, I wont have the chance to test them as I will buy abroad or used.

Weight: 78 kg

Board size I want to buy: ~50 L, ~5’3”

Use: winging in waves, winging in high wind, kite foiling in sub 10 knots wind.

My main doubt is the following: I have noted that there are two types of boards that have similar length and volume: prone-type boards (surfboard shaped, example Cabrinha Autopilot), and mid-length boards (shaped as a long downwind board, example Naish Chimera, Cabrinha Swift).

Examples:

image
image553×664 55.8 KB

Sorry if the names I’m using are not right.

What I can note is as follows:

· The prone-surf board has more width and less thickness.

· The prone-surf board has the foil at the tail, while the midlength board has the foil further forward.

Based on the above, I would expect the modern mid-length to be faster in displacement mode, due to the reduced width. Also, as the foil is located more forward, the board might feel shorter and with less swing weight. Possibly, the prone-surf board is probably more stable due to the width. The reduced thickness of the prone-surf board probably feels more connected under the feet.

Has anyone compared these types of boards in the water? As the length and volume are similar, do they feel significantly different?

I can find prone-surf boards relatively cheap, like the Cabrinha Autopilot, while the mid-length board are all brand new, hyped and quite expensive. I wonder if it’s worth the extra money.

1 Like
2

Hi Osqui !

I wouldn’t call it prone-surf boards, the examples you mention I recall them as traditional wing boards (no matter if they are surf-like pointy shape or squared noses/tails) and mid-lenghts as you mention.

In my case I don’t jump and my main focus is for the board to be the easiest possible to take off with the smallest foil possible so I can actually decide the foil depending on the wave or bumps conditions, and not depending so much on size cause I need some extra area to “take off”, obviously for 8-10 knots winging the ecuation definetly needs a big foil, but here too applies that if you have an efficient board for take off, then you can go for a “bigger” foil but higher aspect and then you can go faster and more efficiently once flying in whatever little wind there is. Point made, all my boards are mid-lenght style or put in another way, “higher aspect” longer and narrower.

You said it correctly, midlenghts are displace way better and take off is more like gaining speed on water before taking off so that’s why you can go with smaller foils (better technique and a bit more finesse on pumping required obviously).
Another thing I find enjoyable about midlenght shapes is that they hide better the volume, and when carving they feel really fine cause of the reduced width, so you can actually lean hard and feel like on a really small board. Pitch stability perhaps you might need to adjust a little bit, but as you mentioned, mast is positioned more forward positioned so balance is aquired no with no issues.

Also, there’s a misconception or at least in my experience, of being wider the board will stand more stable in water, if you have more width in chop or waves, then most likely the more float the board have in relation with your weight, it’ll bounce side to side way more than a midlenght which is narrower, less bounce, and more stability nose to tail. So from this point I would suggest you at 78Kg that if you want to go for a traditional wider wing shape, perhaps go for something that either floats you around 75 to 85L - or go really sinker, around 40 no more than 50L, perhaps that Cabrinha 49L will be fine! (again this based on my experience, I hated when I with my 70Kg, get on 50ish liters boards that won’t properly sink nor totally float and it just wobbles all around and can’t stand easily) - also if you want to jump and freestyle then this kind of boards are better suited for rotation (although I’ve seen many of the KT Riders just freestyling hard on the K2s).

On the other hand if you go for the midlenght then you don’t need to suffer that much going too low on volume and can go easily for a 60-70L board. I’m loving a custom (based on the K2 outline) I made 55L 5’5”x18.5” for most days. I Parawing now, so that extra volume I can take off with less effort and if I were to wing, It’ll be so easy to just take off and the price to pay while on a wave it’s just minimal, I can just carve almost as hard as my 45L (which is also midlenght 4’11”x18”) no issue, but I don’t need the extra suffering for taking off.

hope this helps!

1 Like
3

Hi Omar! thanks a lot for your reply! it makes a lot of sense.

About this, I wonder if there is a way to differentiate the short soap-shaped boards from the more slender boards such as the autopilot?

4

If you can’t try then I’d probably avoid something old, the recent progress in all aspects makes that old Cabrinha a non-starter due to the boxes being at the back.

Agree with @OmarFoilCol, you are comparing old style vs new style wing boards. The old style wing boards assumed you were riding an old style foil, and worked for that, but would be frustrating for intermediate, will require more wind, slower foil, etc

(I’d suggest the title of the thread: “Old vs new style wing boards”)

1 Like
5

It’s hard to encapsule the trends or category in boards.

New style wing boards, can be also like that old Cabrinha but more refined but not as “mid-lenght narrow” say for example, pure wing and freestyle wing oriented vs mid-lenghts which I consider more all-rounder oriented -
For example a fully wing considered design it’s usually not good for prone or sup surfing/DW -
Thou a mid-lenght shape it’s great for all kind of disciplines by just adjusting the desired volume for each discipline.

That’s my case for most board choosing -
Prone/tow 4’3” x 17.5” 28L - not a midlenght properly said, but it’s very narrow-
Wing/Prone (groveler) - 4’11”x18”x42L
Wing/Parawing/ can even prone it when it’s super small waves but still have some break - 5’5”x18.5”x55L. (This one is cool to do the prone surf take off and then deploying the parawing and off you go :slight_smile: )
SUP Surf/wing - parawing lightwind - 5’8”x21”x85L
SUP DW/wing-parawing lightwind - 7’6”x17,75”x92L

The trend in the end is going narrow - in my case around 18.5” it’s the sweet spot - but for a heavier rider depending on the modality and level of rider, perhaps going 19” to 20” can be a good balance.

3 Likes
6

@OmarFoilCol Slightly OT but youre similar weight and have way more experience than me. I live you cant prone. I do flat water tow boogie with a 3’11” 28L board but just bought a 5’3” 40L mid-length.

I got a surf/prone trip coming up and wondering what kind of waves you use your smaller board for proning (not towing)?

7

@swampdaddy - ja your profile pic remind me of the song ocean man - ween :slight_smile: Great song BTW, being OT too -

Well it’s my go to for whatever wave over knee or waist high with proper breaking foamy, but for those smaller days I’m using way more my 42L 4’11”, when the break it’s faster say for over waist and more into chest or in the few cases I get head or overhead opening waves, then no doubt I’m taking my 4’3” 28L.
Where are you going? pretty sure at 40L you’ll be fine with most conditions, and the good thing it’s that it is easier to paddle. Whenever I get strong currents, I just go 42L for easier paddle and being able to stay in the spot (we get some really strong currents sometimes)

2 Likes
8

To save you buying wrong, a wing board can’t be used for kitefoil and a kitefoil board can’t be used for winging.

9

more or less… If you’re a lightweight rider, then you can use a 35-40L prone board for winging, and kitefoiling, and also for parawing. (ex: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10231985479003282&set=a.1456427054136 on a 4’8’’ 36L Zeeko Scrambler)

That magic seems to evaporate for heavier riders. Bigger boards quickly become super annoying for kitefoiling.

10

You would need to be some what of an expert winger to get going on a 35-40lts board, and any more volume will make starting on a kitefoil near impossible.

11

100%. For a kite foil board just make a lunch tray. Foam, wood, whatever. Throw some extra carbon on a skim board and your golden.

1 Like
12

This forum is going so off-rails :sweat_smile::joy:

@Osqui any other doubt!?

2 Likes
13

Back when I used to kite I used both a 58L wingboard and a 8L pump board depending on my apetite for swimming in (I only used single skin kites for kitefoiling). I can assure you that the 58L board was much easier to start than my 8L board. It’s not that hard to start a high volume board as long as you put a half hook on it.

I even took a 70L wingboard out kitefoiling once, a bit harder to start than the 58L but still not too hard.

This is me water starting the 58L board in 8-9 knots of wind with a 6m kite

1 Like
14

@slappy This is what I have in mind for kiting in low winds (but trying to keep the kite dry…). I won’t be able to do anything too extreme, but it can save a day and get wet. Having 3 kids and living in a city that is not windy, that’s good enough for me. Also, this is why I think 40-50 litres is the sweet spot that could work for high wind winging and light wind kiting. I guess I’ll be able to water start it, and worst case scenario I’ll have to start on my knees like winging.

@OmarFoilCol I think there is consensus here that a modern midlength will let me use more modern and faster foils. Even if length and volume are the same, they are more efficient. So I will see if I can get my hands on a midlength here in Argentina, or alternatively I might order a custom like you did.

1 Like
15

Just found this post by @Greg_F which is the quiver I have in mind, kind of.

This brings me back to my original doubts. What size sinker would you recommend? I have zero experience with sinkers. I weigh 78 kg. Im considering 55 litre board. Bigger would be too close to my bodyweight and probably be too floaty. Smaller would be too difficult for winging. Any thoughts? @OmarFoilCol allow me please to tag you.

1 Like
16

Hola Osqui!

Sorry my late response. Going back to what I said, keep in mind that with a Midlenght you’ll be fine having a bit more volume vs a traditional wing board. Where do you live by the way? I have some friends in Argentina.

So I would suggest a board Midlenght around the 60L~. If you have no experience with sinkers winging, then this is a size that will be comfortable for winging and even extend your range of use, and also will feel kinda small. Do you ride waves? Or just flat water?

Kite, I’m sorry but not my expertise, so I cannot have a word there, I’ve never kite. And from what I’ve seen from some kite friends, they are fine with really small boards even in light wind since all the job is done by the kite and the loops they do to help taking off in light wind. I even think a 40L + board can be annoying since the lay the board on one side and put their feet right away in the sailing position, not so comfortable on a 40+ board I think. So it’ll depend on the technique for kiting. Again from what I’ve seen, I may be wrong.

1 Like
17

I might be missing the reason why you specifically want a sinker for winging - but why? Is it because you want to make the kitefoiling part more enjoyable? If that’s the only reason, don’t.

Just get a reasonably sized wing board for your weight, and buy a cheap kitefoil board as an extra board. You’re trying to bridge two disciplines with opposite requirements.

Kitefoil boards are cheap, and they take up no space.

3 Likes
18

@Zarb, fully agree, I know the use of kite foiling is in conflict with the correct sizing for winging. Pay no attention to the kite foiling part, I just want a reasonably sized sinker board for winging. About kite foiling, I might use the board in very marginal days, like 8 knots, that we get many of those here in Buenos Aires. If it doesnt work, I´ll just go back to a regular kitefoiling board. I bet the extra length and volume of a mid-length foil board might help in those very marginal days.

Hola @OmarFoilCol, muchas gracias! Appreciate your comments and assistance. I live in Buenos Aires, and the conditions here are not great. We dont have waves and the wind is not frequent. We do get a lot of days of about 8 knots, and for those I think I might just stick to kite foiling. I do get to play in waves during my vacations at Punta del Este, Uruguay, but thats only a couple of weeks a year. Love it though when it happens.

I do see now that we might have decent conditions for downwinding, as we have good bumps when its blowing SE. Another good thing about this is that the wind is very reliable. I havent started yet parawinging or downwinding, but given these conditions I might go that direction. I saw a guy in IG do a 25 mile DW the other day at my spot.

Based on the suggestions in this thread, I think I´ll go with a mid-length 60 litre board. As you say, that size should feel small enough as my first sinker. About kite foiling with it, pay no attention to it, it would be a secondary use, in case I test it and I like it. Maybe the extra length and volume lets me go in lighter winds, or use a smaller kite, not sure. I know the board size will be a bit annoying, but I dont mind. Those days I just want to cruise. After windsurfing in strong wind days, where crossing the breaking waves takes some courage, I enjoy the calmness of cruising a light wind day.

So you have some friends down here?