For those of you that use the same board to wing and prone, do you adjust your mast position at all. I am just learning to prone foil and it seems like it has way to much lift during take off, so I am thinking of moving my foil back from my winging position.
Same spot, prone vs wing shouldnt change where your mast will feel best.
Prone take off is way harder than wing, you get a sudden burst of energy in less than a second vs a slow gradual increase in lift over multiple seconds. Its just mental, and you gotta learn how to hold the nose down and control a larger faster burst of power from a wave.
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no idea about winging but regardless you should (mostly always) starr with the mast way back and keep nudging it forward until you find a sweet spot
I use the same mast position between brands even and tune to get them working in that position. For me, the placement of that pivot point is ESSENTIAL. It’s at the core of my riding and I’d rather almost anything else on the foil be wrong rather than mast position.
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paddle into the wave further forward on your board than you think, it’ll help you keep control the lift, keep the nose down and give you a more solid stable platform to pop up. my nose is usually underwater for the first couple paddles, kind of control it buy arching your back but as soon as the wave starts pushing the foil a little bit the board will come up on plane. I find myself taking a full step back to get over the mast once I’m up. otherwise, just keep at it, you’ll figure it out with reps.
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I’m a beginner prone foiler, but experienced winger and surfer. I find I have to move my mast back considerably for prone, otherwise I tend to lift too early. Granted, I’m using a foil bigger than what I normally wing with. The other day I took my usual winging 850S out prone and found I didn’t have enough lift. So maybe I have to move the mast forward to closer to my winging setup for a smaller foil like that.
Im kind of in the same boat experience wise. I was originally using a bigger foil for prone like you, but I’ve actually started using a smaller foil which gives me more control over the lift. Pumping is harder, but takeoffs are easier. Im sure I’ll revisit my equipment choices once I’m more proficient, but thats where I am.
Yeah, it’s a total balance tradeoff. I find it easier to pop up on the smaller foil because the board doesn’t want to immediately shoot to the moon. But if the waves are really small, then there’s simply not enough lift and I’m stuck. But I was using an Axis HPS 880 to learn, and the small foil is a Code 850S. So it’s a big difference. I’m planning to buy a Code 980S to hopefully split the difference. I still falling 10 times for every wave I actually catch and ride.
I prone and wing on the same board and use the same mast position. I think the main thing is to adjust your pop-up to get your front foot far enough forward.
Compared to surfing, foiling pop ups are harder since the board does not drop away and you have to push your full weight up and clear your front foot. This makes it easy to plant your foot too far back and then you will get the too much lift feeling.
The advantage of foiling is that since you don’t usually drop in, you can do a very slow pop up and get your foot planted in the right spot before lift off. If the board wants to launch while you are popping up (weight on hands) then you probably need to move your mast back
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I experimented with smaller foil for less lift Kujira980 vs 1210, but I think I had other problems. After about 10sessions and failing 90% of attempts my buddy recommended I leave my hands on the board for longer when you stand up. This keeps your weight forward and keeps you low. This made a huge difference for consistency in take off. I think if you are way off, and are riding a larger board and larger foil it will buck you. But changing this helped me the most. (90kg rider, 39ltr board).
I have tried using the finger trick balance point for mast position, but none of the other riders had their position based on that except for one, who is the best rider 
I think you have really good point here. I can see that leaving your hands on the board for much longer can totally help. I have to unlearn my surfing, because I’m so used to just popping up quick and going. I used to ride a lot of pitchy wave back in the day. I need to teach myself to stay crouched, with hands on the board, longer.
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Use wing nuts to adjust on the fly (not a paid endorsement) Hydrofoil Wing Screws Review – FoilSurfing.Net
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This advice is all so spot on. I’m a beginner who just made it out of prone foil learning jail last Friday. First, I had to scrub my brain of surf technique and do exactly as is being said here…keeping my hands on the nose way longer than I was doing really helped but was so weird at first. Second, I moved my mast all the way back. And third, I finally gave up on other foils that I had been using and made the leap to a Progression 170…Game Changer! I went from totally sucking to being able to hit the lip, cutback and pump in one session. I went out the next day to make sure it wasn’t a lucky fluke (it was really favorable foil conditions also for the first time ever) and I had picked up some muscle-memory to my surprise. It was even easier. Now I’m freaking excited to work on getting that first 2fer1. I tried a couple of roll-outs over the shoulder but got so excited that I breached on the pump down the back.
Anyway, it was mind-bending how well the Progression 170 pumped…it felt solid like a concrete pump track on a skateboard! I ended my session by pumping from an outside point break across a flat “lagoon” all the way to my car down the beach. So Stoked!
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Aside from pumping, what is the benefit of moving the mast forward for prone if your feet are in the same position relative to the mast either way?
That’s so awesome. How many prone sessions did you do before this first successful one? I’ve been out 8 times, and started getting up at session 5… even pumped around a bit. Session 6 I properly rode 2 waves. But sessions 7 and 8 have been frustrating. I got going a few times during those last two sessions but was never comfortable or locked in.
BTW, I can’t get into Unifoil right now. I’ve cut back spending. But most of those sessions were on an Axis HPS880, (1100) which is a foil I know well, as I used to wing on it… but I don’t really ride it anymore. Last two sessions have been on a Code 850S which is one I really like for winging. But I feel it might be too small for the conditions I’m proning. I’m hoping the 980S can help me. I need order one.
Pumping is a pretty big deal
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Of course. There’s also swing weight . I’m curious about how a forward mast effects take off (aside from difficulty). Does forward mast help you get into waves earlier?
Does it depend on the wave quality?
Assuming your board is modern with a relatively parallel mast track to board deck, the goal for me is to match paddle buoyancy with the foil lift. Too far forward will mean the board is submarining sprint paddling due to so much weight on the nose to keep the foil from lifting. too far back, when I jump up, I have to ollie to get the board off the water or wait until the wave pitches to get enough momentum to lift.
So if you are a pro a bit more forward might allow you to use the initial surge of paddle speed to lift the board as you jump forward to catch the lift. A beginner will just rotate off the wave or worse, cavitate with the board then fipping under you as you stand up! And too far back, you’ll always feel you need more wave power than you actually do, causing later more critical take offs.
Foilways, I had about 2 1/2 years of “giving it a try” about every four months in always horrible conditions, overhead closeouts, monster whitewater take-off attempts, etc on a way oversized Gong Fluid Wing that was 1900 cm2, homemade fuse, Slingshot mast and stab, and a cut in half longboard to make a 5’0" that “looked” like a foil board but had a horrible trim balance. Then I shaped a real foilboard, got an Axis 910 and went out in some slightly more favorable conditions and made some baby steps forward with some bucking bronco rides. So I had maybe 12+ total attempts that felt like I was stuck in foil hell. Then I got the Progression 170 wing, went out 3 times in marginal foiling surf conditions (like 50mph winds), but felt improvement finally. Then, last weekend, with my first day of really nice surf conditions, the switch turned on. I could pop up and ride with control and pump. I credit it to the Progression 170’s tameness. It doesn’t cork you out of the water on take-off, and then on breech or lack of speed it doesn’t drop out abruptly, it lets you down in control of your board. It completely changed my confidence level. I went out yesterday in super tiny soft waves and my muscle memory held from last weekend. My pop-up confidence almost feels like normal surfing! That Progression 170 has been magic. For me the PP170, moving the mast all the way back, and finally going out in good conditions were game changers. I feel like I’m 13 years old again and just discovered skateboarding…frothing for the next session!
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