So new foiler here but i think I am progressing fast. I still get bucked off on the regular but I am currently running a Armstrong 1200 cf setup and almost feel like I could connect waves if I had a high aspect set up. My pumps are awful looking and my turning is super mellow and not consistent. Am I getting ahead of myself a bit? When do you know it’s time to graduate. I am only using this in surf too.
Whenever you feel like buying performance. That’s essentially what you’re doing going from 2 year old gear, to 1 year old gear, to 6 month old gear. Throw money at the problem! It’s what we all did.
I saw a sponsored rider friend had a post where he was riding with a kid on an original Naish thrust. So I asked him how embarrassed he was with his f1 race car of a foil next to that kid. He said they switched in the water and he could barely stand on the kids foil and the kid was pumping around happily on his. haha.
5 Likes
I think if you have access to a boat you can get HA foils dialed in much sooner than trying to do it paddling into waves. Your pumping will also improve quicker. I think you should get the 1200 wired and your HA journey will be much more enjoyable.
1 Like
The armie HA jump is rediculous. There’s no middle ground. Wait for their new Mid aspect stuff to come out and they’ll have some wings that are comparable to other brands HAs.
New MA line is happening soon. Or switch brands
2 Likes
I appreciate that. I have only been foiling for a month so I am most likely getting ahead of myself with getting into high aspect already.
1 Like
I appreciate the info on the MA from Armstrong. Will definitely wait it out a bit.
Do yourself a favor and get another 3 months or so of sessions logged on that CF1200. The extra stability and overall control that you’ll develop in that time will help a ton when you make a move to a HA or even a MA foil.
Once you’re making the majority of your attempted takeoffs and are confidently in control throughout the duration of each ride then I’d say make the switch. At that point you’ll be ready to focus the majority of your effort on feeling the difference of the new foil. Otherwise you’ll be having to split your focus between still working on your baseline skills and learning a new foil at the same time, which is a recipe for endless frustration!
4 Likes
Get the pump at least dialed in, the concept of not putting pressure on the foil but releasing for being able to glide longer and more consistently.
It really is a bit harder on the LA/MA to keep speed when pumping, but the idea is precisely to go slow cause those wings can hold you better. The HA wings (last gens of most brands are more user friendly at least on the lower speed stall) will be less forgiving so not much space to get the synchronized movements for pumping dialed in.
I took my time going from L aspect to MA and now enjoying the HA at max! And obviously still learning, cause HA push you to be as efficient as possible.
Conclusion, as SpaceCoastFoiler mentions, give it some more time. One month seems like a really really fast learning curve you have! Congrats!
4 Likes
Thank you for the info. I really need to work on my bump and also in general time in flight. I am the type of person that goes all in really quick so I appreciate someone saying to slow down a bit haha. I am just trying to excel as fast as I can but I have to remember to be a beginner.
As a longboard surfer the first time I got up to the nose I immediately went out and bought the best " nose ride" longboard I could. But unfortunately that board was terrible at everything else and I wasn’t ready for that step. So I appreciate you giving me the info. I am picking it up fast but I still have a lot of work to do. But I think the next wing will be a Mid Aspect foil just so it handles wind chop better.
1 Like
The next step in progression is absolutely a 35-37" span and 1100-1400 Sq cm. Id say if you can even hop a shoulder to the next bump on the line your ready. Don’t get caught up in the AR, the span is the magic number. Lift 170, Kujira 1210(1095 is pushing it), Naish 1400 or 1240, Cabrinha 1200. They’re all going to pump ABOUT the same and turn about the same.
Even when things get really small and HA in this span it still feels closer than if you change the other variables (the lift 120 is very close in feels to the 170 - different areas, different AR, identica span) but don’t go to small early (gotta fine tune that catch and pop up first)
A foil in that range will still surf and will pump as well as you need for surf foiling. You should stick to that range for a while, untill you have infinite pump. Where you can pump circles out the back while you wait for a set. You’ll never get more wave time than on this range setup.
From there move to the small HA(lift 120, Armie 925 or smaller) if speed and glide are your jam or the smallish MA(Vyper, Armie HS 1050, etc) if turns are your thing. At that point your going to something for more speed, ripping, feels whatever and will sacrafice wave time, so maximize the value of the progression on the prior setup. Or just stay content with the sweet spot foil.
Armie just doesn’t have anything in the magic spot yet. Missing this essential foil is a huge omission for armie, glad its being fixed. Don’t skip that step, and plan on being there atleast a year.
3 Likes
I think it really depends on your wave type and how you want to surf it. Also your weight plays a big part. A lot like picking the right surfboard I guess.
For surfing I found the HA wings work well in small 1 to 3 ft longboard conditions, where you don’t have much of a face to turn on and just want to glide or race down the line and then pump back out.
The downside for me of the HA wings is their turning at speed in medium to larger waves (3ft+). I weigh 94kg and an HA wing that I can pump a meaningful distance has a wingspan close to 1m (I own the Unifoil Hyper 190 and 230). The large wingspan creates a couple of issues:
HA turns OK at slower speed (using their yaw instability), but at high speed with that wide wing span they just don’t turn (roll) that well. You can make them turn a bit better with a shorter fuse or smaller stab but then you loose a lot of pumping ability.
HA wing tips breach more often and to compensate you have to ride a longer mast and initiate the turn riding lower, which causes mast drag, slows you down and you risk hitting shallow bottom.
For pumping I found HA wing are less forgiving of mistakes due to yaw instability and higher stall speed.
Also HA efficiency makes them sometimes too fast for slower waves so you often outrun it and end up in the flats.
Also, for me anyway, pumping the long distance between sets is a bit overrated - by the time I’m back out my legs are toast and there’s no leg power left to actually surf the wave proper. I’d rather give my legs a rest and paddle a bit. Connecting waves in the same set is a different story, but you don’t really need an HA wing to make that couple of meters between waves.
I only recently found the holy grail for my local conditions and how I want to ride. The Vyper 170 for my weight in anything under 5ft, and then Vyper 130 for 4ft+.
The turning is SO much better than the HA wing. You can really crank it hard and it just goes where you want. It’s not much slower than the HA wing, and because the turns are tighter you get the same G-force in turns of a faster HA wing with it’s longer turning radius. And the bonus is I can actually pump it the same distance as the larger HA wing purely because it’s more forgiving of my (many) pump mistakes. And when you want to turn onto an oncoming wave, the MA wings give me a much better chance of making the turn, where the HA wings often throw me off just before the drop.
I think if you are a light weight, the small HA wings under 80cm span would turn well enough. That is probably why all the “pros” go for tiny HA wings anyway.
I guess I’m trying to say, don’t jump straight to HA wings without trying the newer MA surf-dedicated wings that also pump and connect too. They really are a confidence booster because they are way more forgiving than HA wings in the surf.
8 Likes
I’m coming at foiling from winging, not prone, and am a good deal heavier but my experiences 100% match what @TooMuchEpoxy is saying, think he is spot on with recommended span, area, progression timeframe and outlook.
1 Like
Thanks everyone. I think for the next wing I am going to give the Armie HS1250. research wise and from what everyone on here is saying it seems to be the next step. I am also starting to find that maybe High Aspect isn’t for everyone. It seems like the Mid Aspect stuff is almost a best of both worlds? I still have a long way to go but maybe in a few months I will make the switch. Again I appreciate all the time everyone took for me to explain. I love this community!
Do some more research before getting a HS1250, you pretty much need to chop it to make perform decently & buying that wing was the reason why I ditched Armstrong completely.
Harsh words but also the truth.
I’d agree the HS 1250 probably isn’t the thing. The span just isn’t there to be a great pumper to get that wave time. Better to wait for the MA if your stuck on armie.
1 Like
You could get a used 1250 from someone who’s already chopped it and waiting on the MA wing. There’s a bunch up for sale.
I’m 145lbs and the 1250 feels a bit too big for me in a lot of conditions, but I progressed on it a buncc. The 850 felt too small. Sold the 850 and probably should sell my 1250….want to buy mine?? Mines not chopped, but I could snip it if ya want.
1 Like
I completely understand. I only know the Armstrong gear because its all I have and I dont know if i would need a whole new rig to run a different brand wing/foil
I appreciate that but I may have to wait till the mid foil comes out. But just for fun maybe message me for potential details.
Im a beginner too (prone) i have an Armstrong 1250 with 300 tail. Getting better but still very unstable. Getting better at pumping but still along way too go. Ive recently added a 195 tail and like that with the 1250.
Just got the Ha 1125 and feel more stability side to side harder to turn …more speed but feels easier to pump. Next ill get behind the boat to get a better feel and make some adjustments.
Then ill be back on the 1250 with the 195 tail and continue my progression loving it.
1 Like