I’ve been spending a lot of time this year dockstarting my UHA 1270 and I’ve been using the Glide 220 stabilizer because it’s what I have in my kit. I’ve had a couple people comment on my videos saying that I would really benefit from a smaller stab, that I would basically “unlock” the 1270’s potential. I reached out to Chris Porter of Crisp and he said for my setup and weight to go with a Dart 140 (probably with blue shim) or if he were to recommend his offerings he said either the Flex 150 (with a blue shim) or the 130 if I’m up for a challenge. Obviously, Chris’ advice holds a lot of weight but I just wanted to reach out and see if anyone has any experience with similar setups or with the Darts or Flex stabilizers in general. I mostly flatwater pump, wakethieve and eventually want to get into downwinding. Any advice would be appreciated.
Flex 130 is great, pumps very well. I use it prone and dockstart with the 880. Its a bit small with the 880 to dockstart, goes well with the 1180, frees up the role and turning. The only downside with wakes is it doesnt like going through the prop wash, you can definitely feel the flex and occasionally throws me off, but otherwise love it. For ref im 75kg
I can’t comment with the crisp tails or 1270 yet but I can highly recommend the smaller Armstrong stabs. If you’re comfortable on the 220 glide then its time to go smaller. If only buying one for mostly pump and wake, I’d go straight to the Dart 120.
The smaller stabs (combined with shorter fuses) makes a HUGE difference in both the carve and pump efficiency for larger foils. Yes, it makes them more reactive which can throw you off at first, but the same reactivity allows quicker corrections, efficiency and versatility once you adapt. The Dart 120 red shim is my current go to with the HA 1080 & 50cm fuse for wake. It carves as fast as I ever want and can still pump and surf half a dozen wakes back. For dock start or surfing wakes way back the APF 1350 with the 120 blue shim and 60cm fuse is great. Also, for some reason the 1350 with alloy mast and 65cm fuse has a great rhythm for dock start and pumping. Something about the consistency of the mast section is really forgiving compared to the tapered performance mast. Maybe not as efficient overall, but again, not bad when you go to the smaller tails and a red shim (120 or 140).
For reference, I’m 78kg and have owned all the APF front foils, several HA, S1 and a few axis pump setups for dockstart and wake use mostly. Lots of time on the 220 glide, 202 pump, 140 & 120 dart. I would like to try the crisp tails at some point too and would love to hear your opinion on the 1270 compared to apf or larger ha foils if you’ve used them.
Thanks for your reply, this was exactly the information I needed. Do you notice a big difference between the Dart 140 and 120 or is it pretty negligible? Would a 120 feel similar to a 140 with a blue shim?
I have the APF 1880 and the 1675 with the Pump 202 and mostly use the 1675 for dockstart/rockstart as I find the 1880 a bit “draggy” unless you can keep it really high on the mast. I haven’t tried the APF 1350 yet, I was going to purchase it and then the UHA 1270 released so I went with that instead and I’m glad that I did.
The UHA 1270 is perfect for dockstarting, it takes a about a session to adjust to it coming from the APF’s as the pumping rhythm and cadence is a little different. It likes faster lighter “taps” rather than the deeper, slower pumps that the APF’s like. It turns well for the span, I haven’t noticed and “death spiral” feeling that I notice on the 1880. The best thing about the UHA 1270 compared to the APF’s is the glide, so easy to just pump a few times and glide for 5 seconds. It likes a little bit more speed off the start but not much more than the APF’s, at first I needed to take a couple steps to get it up to speed but now I can deadstart it. Haven’t tried a knee start yet but I’m going to work on that soon. It’s definitely my favorite Armstrong foil that I’ve tried so far, get your hands on one if you can.
It isn’t night and day but I’ve found the Dart 120 preferable to the Dart 140 in all aspects for low speed pump and wake riding. Given the choice, I will pick the Dart 120 every time.
I do occasionally switch out to the 140 or use it on a second rig and it works great, but every time I go back to the 120 I feel a small sense of relief and more relaxed in my riding. The 202 is very flat with lots of lift, and I used to like it as a 140 alternative because I could tail slide on the larger foils with almost no yaw resistance. But since I’ve had the 120 I feel it carves better with big foils, has much less drag and I don’t need the 202 yaw to cheat into the turn (although the 202 is still sometimes fun for that reason alone).
I’m to the point of selling the 140 and just buying another 120 but I decided to try the crisp 130 first. I’ll let you know how that goes based on @scott comments above with prop wash. I do like to “slalom” across the the first wake and the dart120/ha1080 combo cuts through prop wash with no drama. I’d hate to give that up.
Thanks for the 1270 feedback! I was considering it for a 1350 replacement and it sounds like that might be the ticket. I never had issue with death spiral on the 1880 but I did notice the draggy low speed tendency. I didn’t keep that foil long, but I also didn’t have a 50cm fuse or dart 120 tail at the time. In hindsight, I bet those would loosen it up and refine the pump high on the mast. The 1350 has be great though.
@Onyhr857 I spent a few hours on the crisp flex 130 this weekend. It felt better than the Dart 140 and similar to Dart 120, but in the end I would still pick the Dart 120 over the Flex 130 or Dart 140 as an all round stab for wake and pump.
I didn’t notice anything major through prop wash but it seemed to amplify surface chop slightly more when high on the mast. Carves were slightly slower, more deliberate and pumping slightly softer, more damped. Again these were very minor differences and I could ride the Flex 130 all day with no complaints. They may simply be attributed to the added surface area and span. When you literately stack up the Dart 140, Crisp 130 and Dart 120 on top of each other they visually appear to be scaled down versions of similar profile but with decreasing area, anhedral and span.
The Flex 110 may be better competition to the Dart 120 and I’d be curious to test that at some point too.
That’s great information, thanks. That pretty much makes up my mind and I’ll most likely go with the Dart 120 but I just saw Crisp release a Carbon 110 and I was thinking back to when you said that you would like to go smaller than the 120 if you could and it got me thinking that might be a good choice as well. What are your thoughts on stepping down that far or should I stick with the 120? I just see the guys on Axis and Ketos foils pumping with super tiny stabs and wondering if I should go right to the smallest size.
The Crisp Carbon 110 looks very interesting. I’d love to try one. It’s less area but still has the same span as the 130 (325mm) and slightly more span than the dart 120 (300mm) so likely in a similar ride quality. Probably good with either but Dart 120 is a bit more proven easier to get.
Clearly there’s a point of diminishing returns on tail size or everyone would pumping around stabless. My tendency for larger front foils is get to the smallest tail size you can for efficiency and maneuverability and then adjust fuse length for stability without paying the drag penalty of larger stabs. I suspect the Axis and Ketos guys you mention have already played that out and came to the same conclusion.
For reference: Top to bottom Dart 140, Flex 130, Dart 120.
I havent had a go on the XFlex yet, but hopefully I will catch up with Chris in the next couple of weeks and test one out then can report back