I saw this comment in a whatsapp group today. I can’t tell if I agree with it or not.
“gotta keep in mind best turn will be the one at the slowest stall speed as you can get more vertical and turn around quicker”
The limitations of foil turns as compared to surfboard turns is becoming very evident though. It’ll be interesting to see where the next generation of foils goes.
Mike and I debate this. He’s likely in the camp of slow and tight and I think the best at those turns right now.
My thought is that you should lean into the strength of the craft you’re riding. Shortboards are designed to fit in a pocket and crank tight turns. Longboards for glide. Foils excel at glide and keeping speed. My favorite turns are optimized for keeping as much speed as possible with the hardest bank angles I can maintain. Building speed from carve to carve.
But best is subjective and we all have our own styles. There isn’t a right or wrong. Some days I feel like midlength glides and others like bashing lips. It’s all amazing.
Bumping this as the most important discussion that was never concluded
I think the ergonomics of foil turns match surfing to a large degree, evident because the only people that can turn a foil properly could already surf.
Key exceptions like Kane who foils like no-one else at all, primarily because he didn’t surf, so has a unique style.
I share this because this clip from Reo is possibly unique, almost getting to a layback downcarve MF style with the straight leg finish. Something that I haven’t seen that much of.
Wow you dug in the wayback machine for this one.
I don’t think there have been any crazy improvements in foil design to make them more like surfboards in the pocket. In fact, I would say the industry went the opposite direction for at least a year because the users of foils just want to pump and stay on foil for 3 hours at a time. I don’t understand how pumping and going straight is more fun than turning.
The best “surf” foiling is being done by guys in straps still. Being able to overpower your foil and use the leverage of straps is too big of an advantage. (examples are Eddie O at the Foil Fever contest. Any foiler at the GWA wing events)
So the key there is to use undersized foils and overpower the foil to break it out of the line it wants to be on.
EDIT: To address the clip above. It furthers the point I made above. Reo is on a ha 480. That’s not a foil you can pump for ages.
Yeah if you want low speed but high acceleration then you should just get a surfboard. Foils are for going fast
What’s faster. A foil or a tow board?
Ok yeah at extreme speeds on monster waves or 50kt winds across flat water foils lose. But for my daily knee-to-waist and light onshore conditions foils go way faster
Tow board 100%. They end up skipping across the water while foils resist the entire time.
Yeah this is what sparked the thought. I’m on a Silk 850 and loving the feeling of turning so much that I don’t even worry about pumping. We’ve had an amazing run of waves and it makes me want to eject to Indo or something with a Silk 650 and just lay turns.
And that turn from Reo is really nearly overpowering the foil, and a full wrap in about 10 feet circle. I had a turn that felt like this (no doubt looked terrible), but it is bringing it closer to surfing for sure, where you can push through the fins grip.
I like the carve style turns, but I think aggressive foil stalling surf style turns are an interesting idea.
So a question is what is the body training mechanism to do this? Is it surf skate? Is it “driving” with your back hand (surf style)?
is it pivoting around your front hand (what reo seems to be doing)?
Is Erik unlocking a new mode of foiling?
He is doing something pretty unique which is really riding the foil with lots of torque on both forehand and backhand. Continually generating lift through the foil at really low speeds. Most other foilers in this situation are pumping or stalling
He is generating speed(lift) by keeping the foil on a turn in the power. Though that wave has little power, the foil is staying powered up the whole time because he doesn’t flatten out.
I wouldn’t call it a new mode, just a different look at the same thing on small waves.
It requires a commitment to complete the turn top to bottom and bottom to top with no pause.
One of the ways I have found to practice this is foiling the 3rd wake or so on a boat with a small foil. The zone of power is very small, so tight turns are required to stay in the power, otherwise you run forward and stall, or end up pumping.
call that what you want then, but yes, he is the only one doing it on waves, especially on the backhand carves
Huntington hop vs s turns. You finally have a pro level surfer regularly showing footage. So instead of us middle age dads who pump and go straight to much it’s a guy turning and using the power of the wave.
It’s not new. It’s just not often done. Too many foilers like pumping and going straight.
EDIT: Here is an example of more of an everyman doing the same thing.
What front wing is he on?
It’s possible he got the new flite wing I guess. Otherwise I would guess f-one sk8.
wonder what size. looks small
it’s not quite the same or at least not to my point because he is overpowered rather than underpowered.
basically this, where if he went straight he’d stall. That is like on a surfboard with lots of rocker where you have to go rail to rail
I actually just came here to post another video of EG. His turns are so snappy and unique. He rolls the board from rail to rail so fast and it looks like he rolls much earlier and more authoritatively than most riders. Definitely bringing some interesting techniques over from high level surfing. He posted a longer video on IG (which included this clip) and it says hes on the Flitelab Flux 707.
Watched it again and there is so much upper body rotation going on. He pre-winds his whole upper body in a very unique manner and then unloads it well in advance of turning the foil. Its like his lower body is coming through a turn and his upper body is already making the next turn.
I’m changing my answer to the original question. How to do the best turn on a foil? Ride a smaller foil.
This technique is very common although most noticeable and useful in very low energy situations. Jeremy Wilmott is a master of this because he is so big and as such finds himself commonly in low power circumstances. I first saw Ryan Hurley do this on fist generation Naish so nothing new.
Most team riders wouldn’t post waves like this unless showcasing a foil so your more likely to see it live.
