P170 vs P140 - thoughts?

I left Armstrong (HS 1225 and HA925) for a loaner unifoil viper 170. loved it. My connect second wave rate jumped from 10% to north of 50% on clean days here on long island. My goal however is to connect 4+ waves (done it once on the viper) so I just bought a Progression 170 …….But I am struggling after a few sessions. (Admittedly, conditions have just not been clean). Connecting waves but feeling super kooky. it is noticeably slower than viper although clearly has more glide. I just feel like I struggle with it, like it might be a little bit too big. I’m 160 lbs and wondering if I should I have bought the P140? ( for reference riding it with 13 front foot tail, no shims, med fuse).

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Interested to hear the feedback on the question too. Just bought a Katana and now choosing between P170 and P140. Most folks say that the downsize of the 170 is that it maxes out in high energy or waves over shoulder high. Not sure what this means though.

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If you we’re running a one foil quiver I’d thing the 140 would be the right size for you (its what I have only, at 167 lbs), but if you wanna run a two foil quiver someday, 170 + 125 probably would be more optimal.


And do we know if the p140 is faster than the p170? I find myself missing the viper’s ability to add to quick pumps to make it around a section….thanks in advance for everyone’s insight!

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My thoughts on Vyper vs Progression, keeping in mind im 40lbs heavier (95kg).
The 170P feels bigger that the 170V. It’s a great foil if you prioritise pumping in weak waves. It turns well, but it’s more of a yaw turn at slower speed. Need to anticipate the turn and fly the foil out to make it carve. The Vyper you can carve without thinking. Vyper a much more forgiving foil with safer tips that handle powerful surf and steep takeoffs much better. Vyper has great drive off the bottom (tail also plays a big part here) and much better glide that you would expect for a MA wing.
Progression pumps better, Vyper pumps easier if that makes sense. Progression is still an HA foil that you need to keep high on the mast. Then it covers twice the distance for the same effort. Vyper is more forgiving of pumping mistakes, with less glide. Vyper can pump fine between waves in a set. Progression pumps between sets.
I had both out this weekend again. Vyper shined in 3ft punchy reef and steep shorebreak, carving like a dream and with the odd 2for1. Progression today was magic on weak 3ft bumps, mostly just gliding, hopping white water and easy 3for1s.
The 140 Progression is faster but doesnt pump and glide as well for my weight. And when the waves get to waist/chest i prefer the 130 Vyper. Have been trying really hard to like the 140 more, but for my weight and conditions its not winning. Perhaps for a lighter surfer the 140 would be what the 170P is for me - a large wing replacement for weak waves.


@Ajam THANKS for sharing. This all makes much sense.

Completely agree with Ajam’s comments. I will say that at 160 lbs the P170 is a very big wing for you. Like it should totally be your groveler, chip in and pump around catching wind chop mush burgers. The P140 would be much more of a daily driver for you. I weigh 208 and while I love the P170 for groveler conditions, I move to the P140 as soon as I am able because it surfs so much better (just because it is smaller). Lastly, I freaking love the Vypers. I have the 150, 170, and 190. They do it all. Surf better than anything I have ridden, plenty efficient. Not Progression efficient but you don’t feel like you are riding a dog.

I am about the same weight (160). I’ve been riding the lift 170 and 120. I can pump the 120 but it’s hard with for me at 54 yrs old. I am happier pumping the Lift 170, but both struggle in turbulence. I just got a Katana mast and I am now tossing up between P170 and 140. I demoed a p170 in shoulder high waves and it didn’t feel massive for me. 140 is the logical choice for my weight, but I don’t want to regret not having the easy pump of the 170.

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Hey Tim, I’m about your age & weight - I bought the P140 & later the P170…I can pump the 170 better than any other wing I’ve owned (inc Kujira 1210).

My 140 isn’t getting much use since getting the 170, I’m on the Sunshine Coast Australia.

If I was younger & had better waves, I’m sure I’d be on the 140 or 125.


Good advice. Thanks Mick

The P170 is orders of magnitude more nimble, performant than the Lift 170. So moving from Lift to UniFoil Progression series is an immediate uplift as it relates to the 170 size. P140 vs Lift 120. Love the Lift 120. But it does need speed. The P140 has a MUCH better low end. I think it surfs better than 120 and pumps easier. I do think the 120 has a slightly faster top end but you can tune some of that in with UniFoil. Like by using a negative shim. Now, Progression 170 vs 140…… I have both which solves that problem quickly. But it sounds like the P170 would be a better first purchase for you. For the record- I am 53 years old and 210 lbs. Just wanted you to know I’m not one of those youngsters on the video in Bali. :joy:


Thankyou TFF. I’m gonna start with 170. Stoked to hear I’m not the only old dude doing it!

Such great insight from all THANKS! Only two weeks in on the p170 and it is starting to make more sense. Tough lately on anything because we have had fun little waves but with really demoralizing seaweed. Anyway, figuring I would always get use out of p170 on dock starts or wing, and having some extra coin in my pocket I went an ordered p140. Arrives next week. I will let u know how it goes.


Super helpful. Thanks! :slight_smile:

Please report back in.

Instead of creating a new thread, I’ll ask this here:

Uni Progression 140 or 170 for me?

Prone foiler for 6 months, 90lbs (86kg), 40 yr old, in mushy, closeouty beach breaks (Tofino, Canada), withpoor pump technique but I can connect a few 2-for-1s per session.

I started on the Lift 200ha (was too boaty and bucky), then the 170ha, bought the 150haX and struggled on it. The 150x has too high of a stall speed and turning was touchy (unless in bigger better conditions). So I’ve mostly been riding the Lift 170ha.

My current goals are:

  • getting more wave time to learn to better harness the wave’s energy
  • improving my pumping technique, and
  • making a lot more, longer connections.

I don’t care (yet) about ripping turns in the pocket or foiling bigger more powerful days.

I can only afford one right now: 140 or 170?

Thanks in advance @Erik . :pray:

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170 daily driver I think will help you so much.


I recently moved from lift 170 to Progression 170. 54 years old and 72kg. So far after 1 surf session and 1 wing assisted DW run, I can confirm that it is better for pumping and has better glide than the lift 170. Also noticing better is stability in turbulence making for a way better solid platform dir pumping. (This is probably helped by the 75 Katana). Whole platform is solid well balanced and stable.

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Yes! Thanks Dave. @theliftjournal I think that’s the move!

Great to hear, thank you Tim!