After this DW race season in Hawaii, it sounds like it’ll take a specific type of foil to be competitive (AR of 10.5+).
Currently seems like the only real production race stuff is coming from Lift (HA X), more to come from Axis ART PRO line? Almost nothing over an AR of 10.7
Do you think the types of wings used in M2O have applications outside of the downwind race scene?
It’s a tough push and pull. Of course people will want to be on the same gear as the pros, but does it make sense for the average rider to be on these sorts of setups.
Armstrong proto and Code proto I would imagine qualify
I think these are probably beyond your average punter but the need to paddle them up and pump in marginal and upwind conditions mean they are likely to have some interesting intermediate qualities.
The big compromise will be their turning and breach? I imagine neither are prioritised
Hi @tap-tunic !
I’m an average guy, not a beginner thou. I can properly downwind but not at the pros pace and always falling at least twice per 8 km (Working on that thou)
I’m using the new AFS line of HA Downwind specific foils. I’m 68kg.
I’ve tested the 1100 is 110 span AR11 for moderate and good downwind conditions, 15 to 25 knots - 1.8m to 2.2m with 7 to 9 seconds (Windguru numbers), not Hawaiian conditions with lots of swell power and long periods.
And just got a few days ago the 800HA - This one is 100cm span - 12.5AR - This thing glides like crazyyyyy … Tested one day winging in some nice outer waves and it glides forever.
I’m not gonna compete, I just want to go faster and get a balanced foil that helps me progress, having more speed I found out it’s very important for keeping up with the wind and swell bumps so you can use less effort and be more efficient.
@Matt - I found no compromise in breaching and turning, yes, they are gonna draw a different line than the lower aspects proper surf foils, but the speed and glide you retain in the turn, lets you push really hard and breach the wingtips so easily!!
So right now those super HA wings are my everyday wings for Winging, prone surf foiling and downwind. Waiting on the high wind and swell season for testing the 800HA … This weekend took it for a tow surf sesh in some decent chest high surf and was so pleased with it’s range!
Yes the pure ha 800 and 1100. The 1100 works great for light wind winging in addition to downwind, just yesterday got up on foil with a few pumps in 9-11 knots with a 5m at 78 kilos and terrible skill level… ha not to mention in fresh water
Tap feel free to pm me, working on scheduling demos for the fall.
Yeah!! There’s always a compromise, agree with you. But some of those can be covered with some skills and with every new design they get more and more balanced and specilized, but you compromise less (hope this makes sense). For example, I know I’m compromising rolling easiness and some tight turns ability, also the basic, you get higher stall speed, so it’ll depend on what your budget is and which set of features you want to prioritize. At the moment I’m prioritizing pump & glide and getting a decent and fun turning capability (way better than old foils). If budget wasn’t a constraint I would have already ordered the SILK 850 for everyday prone foiling and 650 for those punchy tow foil days!
Dreamed quiver.
You missed the Lift 150 HA-X in that chart which has to be the easiest to ride 10+ AR wing going right now. The 110X is also remarkably well behaved for a 13+ AR wing, rolls and carves like a much shorter span with the ‘carve’ tails. Lift is clearly about to release a new version of the 90HA as they’re currently blowing them out. I’m more hoping they’ll update the 120, not that it needs it.
As a Lift 120 user for sup dw one thing that I noticed is that as a surf wing it needs to be positioned at the energy zones so it can accelerate and keep speed, losing speed very quickly if not rode efficiently connecting bumps. The pump shines when trying to find the next bump but kills the average speed.
I remember a Voyager foil post about foil acceleration and seeking for average speeds instead of top speed peaks so in this regard I wonder if these new ultra high AR wings also benefit from acceleration keeping speeds even out of energy zones.
I notice a very big difference in acceleration between the 150x and 110x and less noticeable (but significant) top speed dif. It’s necessary to adjust your perception of what’s possible to get to with the 110 and the decisions need to be made faster as it’s a lot harder to pump out of a hole if you slow down too much. When you nail it, it’s magic
What’s really amazing to me though is how the bigger guys like James and Andrew paddle 700ish foils up with relative ease
The Codefoils R series 860 and 770 are for me real game changer.
For exemple when you need to fly sideways from the back wind, taking a 45° line is so much easier with those HA wings.
I’m also super impressed by the stall speed, those foils are so user friendly for their sizes.
And those are not bad for turning so you can also enjoy some nice carving turns.
Anyone got experience with both the Armstrong dwp range vs the code R range? Tried the dwp for the first time recently and loved it, but very curious about the code R series also
I’ve demo’d the DWP930 and Code 860R on one downwind run each.
Both great foils. Hard to pick a clear favourite from only one 10km test run. Paddle up similar on both. Splits I was getting were around 2:30min/km.
For me I think the 860R code turned a little nicer than the 930DWP. Perhaps due to less area and span and not the foil performance or design. The armie wants to go fast and up and overs so easily. Never once did it feel out of control or near the top speed. The code straight out of the box just works. Needs to be placed forward in the tracks though. I had it at the front on my 7’10 kalama a few more inches forward would have felt better.
For racing I’d be happy riding either. For day to day runs I think they don’t have a place in my quiver as I mainly do short distance sessions less than 12km. These high HA wings need big distance runs and big energy to excel. I’m happy working harder on a lower aspect foil to get more cardio and feel the leg burn.
New player in the field to add to the specs table @tap-tunic
Cloud IX FS 900 / 860cm² projected area / 10.1AR / signature Forward swept leading edge that many other big brands are now following.
Brand claims
new sleeker profile
keeping the surfy style but adding lots of glide and speed.
I already ordered mine, with the new High Aspect Catalyst stab that already improved everything in my current Cloud FS 700 and 1000 (that can downwind too) setups I think this is gonna be a new interesting player.
This is clearly in the bottom end of the AR table, let’s how fast it can actually go, but I think it’s gonna be a sweet spot for those looking for a really good low end and nice surfy and fun glider for everyday conditions. What you guys think?
I’m not a pro, I still have a couple nightmare downwind out of 6 good ones sort of saying.
So looking for a balance of great low end easy surfer style with glide and speed wing it’s gonna have it’s place in the market too.
Hope I can give some feedback on this new wing in a month that I get it!
(Working on that thou)
