I have a progression 140 arriving this week. Planning to use it mainly for winging. I already have a cedrus mast with adapters so didn’t feel like shelling out for the katana mast yet.
I would appreciate if Erik or anyone else with experience of both masts and the progression foil could give me an estimate of how much of the feeling is lost by not getting the katana. If the answer is that I’ll get something like 80-90% of the full potential with the cedrus I’ll probably be pretty happy. If the answer is way less i might bite the bullet.
I hope the new cedrus comes out soon and that it will be good enough to finally not have to buy a new mast for every set of foils.
My prog 140 should be coming tmrw and I will be using it with the Cedrus mast and Uni adapter. I didn’t pull the trigger on the Katana mast b/c I heard the Cedrus mast works well but I’ll have to see for myself. Will update this thread once I get a chance to use it. May be a week or so due to lack of wind in the SF Bay for the next few days and travel.
I’ve got both katana and Cedrus and should have the 140 within a week. Will report back.
Just spent a couple of hours on the 140 / Katana combo the other day and loved it! Considering getting one but also don’t really want to spring for the Katana (despite that it’s a bargain at the moment). Ordered the Foilparts Axis mast to Lift adapter and see they make one for Uni as well. Of course the Axis alu mast at 19mm is the same thickness as the cedrus so I’m very interested to hear @Ericsfbay how your 140 gets along with it. My feeling is it’ll be great and unless you try it back to back against the Katana you’ll be gliding and turning very well. Please keep us posted!
Just noticed Uni is selling their own Axis alu mast adapter for 40 bucks! Now I have no other excuse…
I had my first session on the 140 medium fuse, markin 14 tail and cedrus 80cm alu today. My daily driver the past few months has been a seven seas 1200 on short fuse and carve 200 tail and nolimitz 78 mast. The 140 is the only wing I’ve ridden that’s smaller and higher aspect than the seven seas so take my observations with a grain of salt. I did find the 140 pitch balanced and accessible. But it is definitely harder to get up on foil and harder to ride than the seven seas (not surprisingly). The 140 had good pitch stability, but was much tippier side to side than the seven seas. I was surprised that the 140 did not seem any faster than the seven seas, but i also wasn’t really trying to push for speed since I still need to get used to riding the smaller foil. I’ll try to do a back to back comparison of the cedrus vs nolimitz for the seven seas this week.
I’m looking forward to hearing more experiences.
Does the bottom of the Cedrus Uni adapter touch the bottom of the fuse before tightening the bolts or does the tapered shape of the adapter and fuse leave some space to allow for a pressure fit when the M8 bolts are tightened? Wondering what the fit is versus the Katana mast. I assume the Katana mast doesn’t hit the bottom of the fuse but would like to hear from folks who have that mast about what the fit is like with the fuse (before tightening the bolts). Does the Katana mast also touch the bottom of the fuse?
In my experience the Cedrus becomes a liability (for prone) with wings smaller than 1000. At that point the drag of the Cedrus starts to become a more serious factor compared to the total drag of the system.
As a rule of thumb I’d say if the wing is thicker than the mast, you won’t notice the mast drag. If the mast is thicker than the wing you will.
Anyone else out there using the cedrus uni adapter with the progression wings? My adapter to fuse connection is super loose. I shimmed with 2 layers of alu cans on both sides and still has play after tightening the bolts. Anyone have a similar issue and a fix? I’ll add another layer of cans but is a pain to get the fit right and tight and to slide in the layers of cans properly (adds to my set up time). I’m not loving the idea of having to buy a katana mast but bought the prog 140 and 170 and they don’t ride well with the cedrus adapter I have. It’s like riding a foil with sea grass. Unpredictable due to the loose connection: dives, but also gets too much lift, and tips deflect. I know that’s how it goes when trying to mix gear but is a bummer for sure. I’d really like to have it work out of the box without having to tinker. Already did that with kujira and was hoping not to have to mess around. Let me know what your experience is with the cedrus uni adapter. Maybe it’s an anomaly with my setup similar to the tail screws not seating full on the stab.
Hopefully a better adaptor can be made. I’m planning on using my Cedrus mast on a Uni setup.
Thanks for the heads up!
so that connection is a tapered fit right? If so, you could also take some off the bottom of the adapter with a file or sander to get it to seat deeper.
was it once tight and is now loose or was never tight? It it was once tight you probably cracked the fuse. Look for salt after it dries - sure sign of cracked carbon.
Yes, tapered fit. The adapter and foil are new. Was super loose from the start and was careful to not over tighten. Only rode 1 day so far and swapped to a different set up because it didn’t ride well. I may need to suck it up and get the Katana 95 for winging but haven’t heard anything about it’s performance, only the 83. Good idea on filing. I’ll given that a try as more shimming isn’t reliable. I guess the fiddling never ends.
My cedrus to uni adapter is a tight fit. At least i didn’t notice any play in the connection. My mast plate was loose when i came off the water though, but i bought some blue loctite and expect that to fix any issues there. I really hope cedrus makes a bonded nolimitz style mast plate on his new version. Those two m8 bolts are just an unnecessary thing that can come loose.
Interesting that yours is tight. Is it a fairly tight fit even before you insert it into the fuse? You mind posting a pic of the adapter and/or a video of inserting the adapter into the fuse and wiggle it before tightening the bolts? Here’s what my adapter looks like and a couple videos to show the loose fit before taping and after taping. I wonder if the adapter I have is a different size than yours or if the fuse slot is different dimensions.
Before taping adapter (loose fit): Cedrus Uni adapter no aluminum tape - YouTube
After taping adapter (tightens up fit, but to be determined if it will make the connection stiff enough to prevent deflection of the foil): to be added soon.
I permanently bond my cedrus to the plate. 5200 with the bolts to keep them from backing out and filling all gaps. I bond everything, mast to fuse, fuse to wing. Epoxy, 5200. I never disassemble because I can’t and all my gear feels like it’s made of stone and it’s awesome.
What does Kyle owner of Cedrus has to say about it?
The new cedrus are supposed to be cedrus stiff but NL slippery. The only argument against them will be synthetic happiness.
Your adapter looks a bit different than mine if you look at the part of the adapter that’s meant to be an extension of the mast profile. Just placing the foil on top of the adapter and trying to wiggle it side to side i have no play around front bolt hole and a small amount (maybe 0.5mm) around the back bolt hole. When tightening the connection is solid.
I very unscientifically tried to lift the wing slightly up and then wiggle side to side. Unsurprisingly, since the connection is tapered, there is now a lot of play. You should try to grind down the top of the adapter, or maybe try to get a new one from cedrus. I ordered mine late summer last year so it could be a different batch.
I tried to post a picture but couldn’t get it to display. Just pm me with your email and i can send it your way
I thought I read that the new cedrus will be the same width as now, but only different trailing and leading edges. NL would still be much thinner if that’s the case
Thats not accurate. Evolution Cedrus will be a different mast thickness/profile, but they haven’t specified the dimensions. You are just referring to the final batch of Cedrus masts they are selling now, which is not Evolution Cedrus.
Regarding the Uni Adapter - mine works very well and has no play. I don’t have it with me right now, but can post pics next week. I also owe you an answer on whether it “bottoms out” or not.
My biggest issue with Cedrus is that the connections and bolts are so beefy that there is no compression in the system. A very minor amount of compression keeps connections tight when there is vibration or flex. I have had situations where bolts work loose over the course of a session, and I’m convinced its because of this. Stout connections are good, but if everything is beefy metal on metal, things work loose.