Some great insight here. I am slowly learning that a foiling “surfing well” doesn’t mean the same thing to me, as someone coming from surfing, as it does to others coming from foil or wind focused disciplines. It definitely sounds like if I don’t want to upgrade in the near future saving for a P140 or lucking out on one used is the way to go.
I agree that Hatteras is great for winging/wind sports. I have contemplated getting into winging first even, but I really enjoy riding waves so much. My goal is to get to the point where any day I have a window of time to get on the water I can (outside of a major storm event). Surf on bigger days, prone foil on the smaller days, wing on the crappy days. With that strategy, I bet you could get 300 days in the water here if ones schedule allowed.
Definitely sounds like the Vyper series is oriented towards people towing. Thanks for the ride report.
Regarding the Lift: 150 like this one. I have to say the price is tempting but the post description doesn’t sound inclined to ship.
There are some strong opinions and heavy generalisation in some of these posts. You are 100% correct in that assessment - “Surfing well” and “good waves” can mean very different things to different guys. Especially if you throw wingers, efoilers, SUPers, kiters, DWers and surfers in the same discussion.
For what it’s worth, here’s my shitty opinion: for your weight, get a 150 Vyper second hand or new with carbon mast and carbon fuse. 14" tail. 750 Katana or standard carbon will work perfectly for your weight. Later you can add a 125 or 100 progression for bigger waves. I think you’ll loose more money on the alu mast than on the wing…
I prone exclusively and have been riding Vyper 170 and 130 for a few years now and Progression 170 and 140 for over a year. 51yo and 91kg. My much younger buddy who, like you, come from a surfing background learned to foil in 3 sessions. He’s 80kg and rips on his Vyper 170. We both find the 170 pumps well enough to make 3for1’s.
If i had to start again I would pick the Vyper over the Progression as my first wing:
Safer wing tips
Slower (a good thing when learning and/or solid fast waves
More intuative turning
Easier to stay in the pocket
More forgiving on steep takeoffs
Pumps well enough and more forgiving of mistakes
An absolute bargain new or second hand.
Sure, if you prioritise pump/glide over carving or only ride weaker bumps then the Progression is way better. But for learning, punchy waves or solid conditions i pick Vyper every time.
Love this answer. The the ride report and contrast with Progression gives me a lot to think about.
I know everyone is saying the 170 is too big, but just how painful would it be? I found this (alleged) deal which almost seems to good to be true and I am very tempted. V170, H2190, mast, fuse, stabilizer, and bag for $800 US:
Still not convinced it isn’t a scam… but I’m very tempted. If it is in fact a katana mast, that alone is $1,100 new. Seems like a reasonable starter pack before migrating to a P140 later possibly. But the sizing is probably off for me.
My 2c for the opinions, agree with @Ajam for the most past having owned a progression 140 and hyper 190.
Start with medium to big board, and a very easy medium to small foil. Smaller SLOWER is just so much easier and closer to surfing, because you can steer the foil. A big foil you are a passenger with minimal control and your body will take a while tor realise it.
Don’t worry gear for linking waves for a while. Just figure out taking off, then riding, then pumping.
Ideally buy used from someone that has dialled it in to some extent (can help you dial it too), then forget about gear for 3-4 months and just focus on time on foil, and get a few boat sessions to accelerate.
Prog140 was my 3rd foil and I think too advanced unless you have a very clean wave or a point break. I’d pick the Vyper to start for my area but maybe your waves are easier. Easy foils are incredibly easy to pump 10 times, but super inefficient to link 3. This is the trade off you want to make initially. Like the gears on a bicycle.
Make sure that whatever setup you choose has no play in the mast/fuse joint, if you pick an older foil and newer mast you can get crazy slop, this is the only thing that will ruin your feel even at an early level.
I found the standard carbon to be quite close to unridable, granted this was a very used one, maybe new it will work. Katana isn’t great for the price, so I’d buy used there.
Tbh I’d probably avoid carbon masts as they have such marginal value for such a long time in the early progression, and will lock you into a brand. Wait until you can afford a cedrus evolution or a NLv2. $300 for new alu, only thing I don’t know is the slop in the uni alu mast to carbon fuse. Critical. Go at or sub 80cm regardless
I have beach breaks locally, sometimes dumpy, sometimes lined up, sometimes soft. By east coast US standards though our waves do have a nice push though.
What about alu fuse, is this worthe the cost savings the the short run?
edit: if I go new, I’m looking at the Uni 75cm mast.
benefits would be pretty trivial on the carbon so I’d think the alu is fine, though I don’t know much about it
This sounds like UK surf spots where I am and my immediate thought when first riding the 140 was that it was more precise and finely tuned than I was expecting, and required some skill and technique in our crap bumpy surf.. That said there are lots of 140s going used and it would be a great foil once you get over the earliest hurdles and are riding down the line consistently. If you could only buy a foil once for a 12-18 months it would be my choice. Also if you get boat time or learn to wing or any other factor that speeds things up then that changes the dynamic.
Are you saying it would be your choice of 1st foil in that scenario, or just that you would get one as a foil that has a wind range if you didn’t have a wide quiver of front wings?
I don’t know any well enough who has a ski or boat for that to likely be an option, but I am interested in winging.
Cedrus Evolution Unifoil adapter is good. Im guessing you are talking about the older ones. Its more likely Unifoil inconsistency than Cedrus since he gets the 3D file directly from Unifoil.
We are overthinking this too much and all these opinions are probably just confusing OP and delaying this person actually getting in the water. The longer you wait to start the worse you will be at any point in time.
Get a used foil around 1000-1100 CM2 (150 in2) with a 70-75 CM mast. Any reputable brand: Axis, F One, Armstrong, Unifoil, Lift, etc. You will be able to cheaply change used gear around with any of these brands. Then go start practicing. Worry about better gear when you can actually take advantage of its benefits.
I will say I have some analysis paralysis right now on all this. I will probably continuing scouring online for deals and if I can’t find one, pull the trigger on the Unifoil sale while it’s still going.
Learned which discipline if I may ask, prone, wing, tow?
I learned prone first then wing very soon after. Never towed before. I did do a little bit of kite foiling too before going to prone though. I came from a surfing background so the paddling and pop up were less of an issue than for those without surfing skills. I think you should just go for it. Brand new front wing for then $500 is a good deal.
Yeah, old one i got my hands on bottomed out before the sides were engaged. I ground down the bottom a bit till it seated better (but not perfect) then permanently bonded it in with 5200.
This is exactly what I stacked up in my cart multiple times, though I’ve gone back and forth on the V130 vs. 150•. Opinions in this thread seem divided on that for my weight and ability. But I do agree that I’d rather sacrifice flight time in the beginning for not getting bucked more I would on a smaller foil. Decisions… (The reason I haven’t pulled the trigger actually is because I’m traveling and don’t want it sitting outside if it arrives before I’m back, and Unifoil said the sale will be continuing for awhile*. So I’m using the extra time to continue researching and looking for used options.)
What size board do you recommend as “big”? I’ve read in different places something ~40L is ideal for most beginners but I don’t have context beyond that. I’m currently riding a 5’5" simmons style board surfiing, FWIW.
*: I suspect Unifoil is coming out with a new foil line, or revisions to the Vyper/H2 series and the sale is an attempt to get rid of legacy inventory.
