XXXL Foiler on FD Fusion Thread

Foils and Boards - Gear Talk
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TL;DR Extra Heavyweight foiler transitioning to Foil Drive needing advice

I am looking for your feedback, to tap into the collective experience of this forum to help get my fat ass back in the water and get my grins back! I’d love your advice, your encouragement, and for you to challenge my assumptions/thinking about all of this.

Anyway, after 5 years having an absolute blast winging and sup foiling regularly in Diamond Head and Hanalei I was abruptly called back to upstate NY to care for my parents. Two years later I find myself looking at 60, overweight (20 lbs of buffalo wings and beer), and deeply missing our ocean playground.

I’m finally in a position to do something about it and I have a plan to bring back the grin. Of course that’s why I am posting here, I believe foil drive is the unlock that will allow me to have fun, learn something new, and get back on foil, regardless of the conditions or my weight.

I plan to learn foil assist here in Rochester NY this July/August on Lake Ontario and in the Finger Lakes. Think flat water, small steep windswell, and boat wake thievery. I plan to travel to Hatteras this fall in my travel trailer then on to Florida. I have tentative plans to sail to the Bahamas as well. Ultimately. I’ll travel to So Cal this winter to spend time surfing with my kids (think Doheney, Dog Patch etc). Finally, I’m hoping to get back to Kauai and Oahu to see friends. I plan to bring my gear everywhere I can (possibly rent/borrow a battery there).

I sold everything when I moved, kites, sups, wings, wing boards, long boards, etc. so this is a quiver rebuild. Lucky for me the gear has evolved significantly and I have saved enough to make it happen.

Like all of you, I over analyze all this shit - on top of that I am a retired engineer so you can imagine the endless spreadsheets and countless gear head conversations!

So here’s my current thinking about my ideal setup

  1. Purpose built optimized for foil assist prone surfing
  2. Foil Drive Fusion propulsion is a given
  3. Smallest board than can reliably get me on foil (note my popup is more of a gradually drag my feet under me kind of thing)
  4. Board shaped to optimize both takeoff and recovery (surface area / length / shape far more important than volume)
  5. Trench (more direct foil feel, lower swing weight, minimizes drag)
  6. Integrated mast (I hate the idea of taking a hydrodynamically optimized mast then handicapping it by wrapping a thick wire around the trailing edge)
  7. A very stiff mast (particularly at my weight)
  8. First foil optimized for forgiveness/learning - think early lift, low stall speed, stable
  9. Foil ecosystem that I can grow with (I had great experience with Axis and GoFoil in the past)

So given all of that, here is where I have landed. First the given:

  • Foil Assist: FD Fusion HP, 3 blade (start with stock possibly upgrade to blue low range 6)

  • Mast: 80cm - Integrated 17-20cm (leaning toward Cedrus 80/17 Aluminum if I Can get it - might even pre-order this now cause I love the combination of stiffness, flexibility/not getting locked into one system, and pricepoint)

Next the foil itself:

  • Foil - something that is big and stable to learn on - likely a mid aspect. Maybe 1300 - 1500. Open to suggestions - I’ll be learning on flat water with occasional windswell and boat wake thieving. If I’m on a Cedrus mast then I have lots of options so open to any suggestion new or used - keep or resell foil doesn’t matter to me. Also open to locking in on Axxis, Armstrong, or Code platforms if it makes sense

  • Stab - depends on front wing

Finally, and where I need the most help, the foil board. Ideally I get a production board optimized for foil drive fusion that I can learn on and still grow with over the next year or two. If it ends up being too much of a challenge I’ll pick up a cheap used foil board or wing board to learn on. In the long run I may need to go custom but I cant realistically provide a shaper a proper design brief until I’ve had some real experience with foil assist in my conditions.

Bottom line is I need to be able to reliably get my 110-120 kg ass on foil initially in flat water with a large front wing. I’ll put the work in - it took me 30 attempts to get up on my sup foil board back in the day but after that I was hooked!

  • Target dims - 5’4”-5’8” x 19”-24” wide, trench, very flat with slight v in nose, square/squash tail and 50-70 liters. Optimized for takeoffs and accidental touchdowns. My understanding is that shape trumps volume, and that length helps get on foil more than anything else. (am I crazy here? Last sup was 150l last wing board was 130l!!!)

  • Candidate production trenchboards:

    • Jimmy Lewis Flying VDT 5’-10” x 21” x 3-3/4“ x 55L (love the shape, trust the shaper, but is it realistic at my weight? Is it just too small?)

    • Appletree Zapple 5’8"x19.5" x 54L. (concerned that the pin tail loses too much surface area and might be too small)

    • North Boost 5’6” x 22” x 65l (wow, sounds perfect but the biggest trench they offer is the 5’3” which is too small, plans for 5’6” Trench? Any insiders know?)

    • XSurf Pulse V2 5’6x22”x 60l (shaper says his 115kg friend rides this, I love the volume distribution, full nose and tail, v-nose, trench strength/thinness moving battery really close to feet, and closed cell foam / carbon with carbon stringer construction for stiffness and durability - unfortunately price and availability may be an issue)

    • Omen Capacitor 5’8” x 20.5” x 56l (seems refined but know nothing about it and seems small)

    • Sunnova x Foil 5’6” x 19.5” x 50l (concerned it might be too small)

    • Stinger 5’2” x18.5”x55l (I know nothing about this one, concerned maybe too short and narrow, lacking glide, stability and forgiveness)

As a retired engineer, and like all foilers that I know, I analyze the crap out this stuff. I’ve always been XL-XXL (6’2 230-240) and have figured out to make gear designed for 180-200 lb guys work. Unfortunately I’m now XXXL carrying another 20lbs of Buffalo wings, burgers, and beers.

So what do you think? Any and all feedback/advice is greatly appreciated (yes I know the first advice is to lose weight hahahaha. Anything else I am missing? Other considerations?

I recognize that I may be overthinking this, however my hope is that your feedback/advice will help me and other extra heavyweights. I’ll happily share my experience as I progress..

Doug

3 Likes
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I would imagine that you could risk going large on board volume, my very limited experience trying a foil drive fusion is that the weight is pretty immense and you wouldn’t lose much by adding 2kgs for a larger board given the small % of the total system. I was trying a 40L board when my usual prone is 30L and it felt like I was driving a tank on first impression. This is probably useless first impression as people rip on these setups, but I was surprised

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thanks Matt!

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Hi Doug,

I am 5’9” at 100kg and I wing, boat, and foil drive. Starting to play on the ocean and paddle around. I have the fusion and yes it’s a must for us big guys and it’s fun. I have Cedrus 80/17 and Efoil at 82. My favorite foils are my sabfoil 1150 leviathan for Efoil surf and boat. My favorite for most lighter winds is my 1350 leviathan. I have the 6’8” x 23” AFS whitebird 115 liter and a 8’2” x 22” KT dragonfly surf 130 liter. Both are easy to stand on and fast enough for me. The foils have lots of lift and cover a wide range of,conditions. I do not like skinny jeans model boards. I like stability control and that longboard laid back feel for all my riding.

so my thoughts are ask yourself more what ride you want and let that lead you to gear. Don’t go small cause you will fight it and it ain’t fun except in specific conditions.

  1. No question on fusion. At my weight I Efoil for an hour and a half easy using 60% throttle with 1150 foil.great for no wind days
  2. Cedrus is the only option for foildrive! The two mast setup is more and the mini pod is a great low cost option so you need to examine your finances. Cedrus aluminum with mini pod and two cable lengths would get you happiness with any foil setup. Integrated are a step up in performance.
  3. I prefer a bit of length and volume on boards. I had a 5’9” Armstrong and I did not like the length. To much front to back tippy and I am to lazy to fight it….

One final note, where you ride most makes a difference. I am very close to ocean in Florida and can also ride intercoastal and lakes. I search for reasonable wind, and small waves. Not a big day person.

Hope this helps and good luck.

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Thank you so much! It’s good to hear from someone else in a similar situation. I agree on the Cedrus - particularly the integrated masts. I’m not radical by any means but I’ve always wanted to feel the foil more directly, particularly in surf. I’ve got a pretty good handle on the foil once I’m up, but until foil drive that always meant big wide boards that are just a lot to throw around. Currently zero’ing on the 60l Axis pocket trench as my dedicated foil assist setup.

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Funny but if I were getting a new board I would be on the KT drifter 5 100l liter. It’s 6’1” x 26.75” wide. I like my boards to support my weight plus 10 to 15. I saw this on at the local shop along with the f-one carbon surf crossover. And I rode the 6’1” f-one. I like the stability and they come up just fine. I also like that size to wing. So keep in mind I am not a pure surfer :grin::grin::grin:

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At 200lbs I’m riding a 5’2" 40 liter trench with max and 15cm cable. I paddle as hard as I can to get out of the water and need a 980S code to stay on foil at 100% throttle unless on a wave. As an accomplished prone foiler, I was surprised how difficult learning to foil drive was. You’ll want to err on the bigger side of everything and probably want to just get a used wing board to learn on and use at the lake, then a custom board and smaller foil when you’re actually riding breaking waves in the ocean.

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thanks hwy1north