There does not seem to be much discussion of the new thicker HA wings from Armstrong and SAB(Razor Pro series) versus the thinner profile HA wings from Lift, FOne, Axis etc. These thicker wings (thickness to chord ratios in the 15 to 17% range) seem to optimize for higher lift so that you can ride shorter spans, but are still reasonably fast due to the short chord reducing the wetted surface area. Is this the breakthrough we have been waiting for to optimize between speed, lift, glide, turning and stiffness? I find I don’t really like to ride wings with span over 90cm so i am wondering if this is the new way forward? Currently riding Lift 120, 150HAX and Surf 200 for prone and winging.
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While I may not understand completely the design characteristics, I believe these wings to be the higher lift with less span that you describe, but without being over foiled like a lower aspect foil can be. The lift is apparent but always feels controlled. The experiences I describe below still lack finding the top end speed of these foils so I can’t say how big of a wave at how fast of a speed I think these will work before a negative impact of speed is found.
I have been riding the new Armstrong HA almost exclusively for a few months now.
A few of these sessions were prone foiling the Texas coast, but most of the riding has been surfing behind our boat.
I am using either HA880 and HA780 front wings with the 60cm Fuse and a 180 speed tail all on a 795 mast.
This combo has been eye opening to me. This setup turns on a dime with a very skate like feel when up right, but then locks in when cranking a carve at a high bank angle, all while accelerating into the turn.
My boat speed is 12.5 mph. This the first foil I have been able to consistently make a transition from the second wake forward to the first wake, without having the driver slow down the speed.
The pump style and cadence differ from what I had been riding previously. Once you dial it in, the acceleration when pumping is better by leaps and bounds over my other experiences. But, it does take more finesse and will be less forgiving to grave digging than some other foil options.
If you can’t tell, I am enamored with these foils and my opinion gains positivity each time I go out.
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Definitely not new - the original Axis Art series combined high aspect with high volume (high volume = high thickness for a given area). It is without a doubt an effective approach and the latest gen foils going this way are obviously a step on from the Arts. But, there are so many different approaches with various trade-offs that the only thing to be said with any degree of certainty is that there is no one way forward.
The whole challenge as foil design becomes more and more heavily optimized for a specific set of trade-offs is finding the design that matches your personal preferences and conditions.
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Agree. Not new.
Gofoil RS850 is a typical example.
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This is how the razor pro 775 rides (775 mm wide, 631 cm2). Quite strong slightly cross off gusts, very small waves, still keeps going well, even when heading towards the wind.
And here’s a 2 sizes bigger razor pro 875 (843 cm2). No problem staying on smaller waves further out, where the waves are still moving relatively fast.
I would say it all depends on the waves you are riding. On low period swells, slower type waves, those designs are probably amazing. On higher period swells, faster type waves, those thicker high aspect max out in speed way too soon, you would have to scale down in size of foil so much it would be silly.
See a thick high aspect as a groveler surfboard, if you use it in powerful surf it’s not going to work that good (lack of control, can’t dig the rails in the water). Same with a performance type surfboard in weak waves (ie thin ha), it will sink in flat sections of the waves (lack of free speed, hard work).
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I think this question is related to projectcedrus’s path towards more glide and stiffness. Seems like it works for glide at most speeds, which I care about. Idk about super fast speeds but I don’t care to go super fast.
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