Yeah, back it off just a notch like you did and give it another try and I bet that will feel a touch better. How do you like the 700/900 with the 132?
So I have had the 700 and 900 for a couple of months now. Only winging - coming from the f-one stuff (eagle x 800, eagle 890, sk8 850). Stiffness of the mast and mast/fuse connection is really top notch. I am very impressed with these foils for winging. 700 is my go-to provided 17-18 mph (am 93kg on a 60l board). Very easy roll, and the general feel of efficiency and speed is great. Doesnāt feel like a compromise vs a dedicated winging foil (although not tried the pure yet). I have tried them with 132, 142, ha40. Long fuse. And tried both fuse positions. I find I have to be careful in a carve with the ha40ā¦ you can spin it out unless you focus in creating wider turns - but more glide, so works if the wind is light. The 132 gives enough lift / pitch stability in the far fuse position, and can be loaded up much more in the turn, so this is my go to with both the 700 and 900, unless it is light when I will switch to a bigger one.
2 Likes
Good stuff. I had heard about the spinout possibility but havenāt experienced it on the ha38 yet and my 132 is my go-to on the silks. Iāve been torn about which enduro to add to the mix (I have silk 650, 1050, ultra 750). I loved the 700 but really wonder about the 1100 for ultralight days and as a better addition to my quiver.
Get both haha - Itās like an Ultra 750 in terms of lift - but way surfier - and if itās powerful enough - you still like 80% of itās glide - which is good enough -
1100 sounds definetly like a good addition - doesnāt compare to anything on your quiver -
Still havenāt been able to test the 1300 - it seems like too big for me - but should be really cool for flat water pumping or super light wind downwind -
1 Like
I really wish I had gotten to try the 700 vs 750 on the 75cm mast. If I owned the 80cm I would 100% buy the 700. Not a single doubt in my mind. Iāll get to compare those this spring but itās definitely the sticking point for me. But I also wonder if the 1100 will overload the 75? Haha, I guess just buy one of everything masts and foils.
I wonder about a 700 for powered downwinders? I just had a session on the 750 where I was completely overpowered, and just trying to hang on. I find the 750 is good for milder conditions where the efficiency is important. Today was just pure nuking and I felt like a ballast / passenger.
So 700 or the 900, but I also feel like I need a 1300 for light days or prone (was hoping to avoid adding more than 1 enduroā¦)
Maybe I should have been on the Silk 850 today, probably should have!
Iāve downwinded the 3 of them - (E700 - U750 - E900) - all with the HA38 in long fuse position (short fuselage/long position on the enduros) - no shimming (will definetly try next time to improve low end)
Probably not enough sessions and not comparable conditions on each -
E700 - I was well surprised of the range once it gets to speed - but definitely needs good wind and bump power - but since itās small (with good low end) and fast itāll hold well the speed, you gotta be technical since itāll hold less mistakes when connecting between bumps. - harder to take off, my board itās only 6ā11" x 18 -
U750 - itās way more glidy - did felt bigger than the E700, but with better low end and glide and not that much front foot pressure - also holds really well at top speed - either your conditions are really big to feel it overpowered or maybe mast placement itās too forward (are you shimming it?) - connecting bumps and pumping once youāre at speed itās way easier, average speed is better, but it feels funnier on the E700 on the proper conditions (strong ones). Itās easier to take off - once it start going, it accelerates into the bump really well and itās able to overcome smaller bumps in front of it when going fast and only tapping some subtle pumps.
E900 - just one sesh on it - took it cause conditions didnāt looked too well - it doees have a greater low end but it definetly feels draggier, speed itās good enough but itāll hardly be able to gain the top speed to overcome a front bump and will require a lot of energy - perhaps the day I tested it was too lousy on the energy and I was thinking - āoh shit, why did I sell my PURE 1100HA?ā
This 3 foils somehow overlap a little bit at my weight - was good to test the 3 of them, I think Iām staying on the U750 and would change the E900 to go back to the 1100HA Pure - since itās better at handling low and top speeds, itās easier to ride in smaller conditions and itās range doesāt overlap with the U750 or E700 -
Thinking exclusively on DW Conditions there -
when you add prone - wing - sup surf etc - well, thereās always compromises -
1 Like
I just had two consecutive wing sessions, both 900 short fuse long tail, but first uhm80 and 152, second ~87cedrus Evo and marlin 14(~165cm). As an average foiler Iām thinking even the biggest silk tails need more speed than is convenient for getting on foil grave digging etc. so much more user friendly I think.
I didnāt believe in the baseplate shim until I tried it. Try fat in the back to increase your angle of attack and for some more low end getting into foil. I think itāll also help your pumping. The KD Marlin 14 and DW Race tails are working well for me. Progression 13.5 also goes well with the 1300.
Iāve been thinking about plate shimming, just from looking at the rig from afar the fuse and board are a bit divergent. Maybe Iāll try it. OTOH, it rides and takes off well so idk. What improved?
For the Silk tails the 132 is the only one I like. The bigger ones feel too slow and the AFS foils really prefer keeping their speed up.
Thanks this was very useful to hear. The conditions were very powerful for the U750, it was gusting 40kn, open bay run but very messy. The main issue I think might be the tail creates too much lift, I burnt my front leg keeping it down. Same conditions the silk 850 is just easy.
I did have a + 0.5deg baseplate shim, and I think that is possibly a mistake for those conditions. I feel like less shim, and I wonder about a smaller tail.
I think then Iāll stick with the 750 and figure out the tuning, as Iām not ready to go slower on the 900 and the 700 sounds like Iāll make more mistakes, as Iām already getting stuck with connecting bumps on the 750 when it gets very technical in a reverb section.
1 Like
On the AFS tails:
I towed today in super clean shoulder-head high waves. UHM 80 mast.
First hour was on the Silk 850 with the KParts Mako carve 140. This is a great combo and for turning only is hard to beat. Iāve been using this combo a lot recently and itās great for towing this size of waves. Smooth, fast and very controlled. I havenāt felt overfoiled at any point when iāve used it.
I had an absolute blast pushing the 850 silk harder than ever in todayās perfect conditions. I thought iād do a quick stab change to compare the Mako vs. Silk, and switched to the Silk 142 stab (āfor old times sakeā).
By comparison the Silk 142 has a little more span/AR than the mako 140
|Mako|Carve|140|span310|
|AFS|Silk|142|span320|
The 142 felt pretty similar on turns. Both are smooth, fast and predictable, and can be pushed hard.
I was however very pleasantly surprised that by comparison the silk stab pumped way better, for very little trade-off on the turns. I wasnāt expecting that at all and itās kinda funny to have done a round trip back to the AFS pairings!
I switched to the Enduro 700/short fuse/silk142 for further ātestingā. The enduro 700 is a really fun wing and has itās place on the rollers further out the back. This combo was great, but at one point i felt the Silk 142 stab generated too much lift and on bigger set waves it was hard to keep the nose down. I reckon the E700 is best with the HA38 which turns really well too at speed.
Iām still trying a range of stabiliser combos with the AFS gear. I know the silk stabs donāt get high ratings on here, but i suspect thatās mostly from wingers. For Prone and surf foiling, the Silk pairings are very hard to beat. 650/132, 850/142 etc.
(a further data point from another day - un-shimmed Mako 140 with the Silk 650 wasnāt good - too much front foot pressure at speed. The Silk 650 and 132 is a perfectly balanced pairing and any time i get to use that combo means itās gonna be a good day!)
Iām still testing on the Enduro 900 combos for prone/small waves. I have not enjoyed the HA43 and HA40 silk stabs for surf foiling (wingers seem to love them), in my experience they feel quite tracky. I have found that the HA38 however is way looser and i think is the go for the Enduros.
3 Likes
Agree about winging vs waves(as opposed to bumps), my session yesterday on the e900/marlin14(165) was great, just mowing the lawn hunting for knee high bumps and riding them as long as they last. Top speed 13kts, usually at 10.
1 Like
You should try the SILK 650 - HA38 combo -
Gain in glide and drive thru the turn and sacrifices very little on the turning since the 650 already can roll rail to rail really agreassively. Sweet spot for me on clean open faces !
2 Likes
I think you could be on to something there. For winging Iām always in swell energy that is far below the average day in the ocean. As such, I, personally, am always trying to eliminate tail drag to allow the fronts to fly uninhibited and is probably why I really like the 132 and ha38.
Good feeback on the kparts tails too. Iāve been wondering about them and wanting to try them myself. The glide 120 is especially interesting to me since itās well outside of the silk/ha tail range. Are you in the states? Any trouble ordering and receiving them if so?
Iād agree with you 100% on the Silk 650 w/132. When that combo can be ridden itās phenomenal. Iād also say it really caught me off guard when winging it in flat water with the fuse in the short position. Iāve easily had my best flatwater turns on that foil.
1 Like
Where are people positioning the enduro (700 preferably) in relation to the silks? I ride the silk 850 and 1050 in the same position in the tracks and they feel super balanced there. Finding I need to bump the enduro 700 forward a bit (maybe 0.5ā).
Iām finding the long fuse position (on the long fuse) to be a better balance on that foil for me. The short position feels a little pitchy. So far my preferred tail is a chopped ha40 but Iāve only ridden it with that tail and the silk 132. Still figuring out the setup but itās a fun foil when itās powered.
I ride the Enduros about a half inch to inch forward than the Silks. Try the Silk 132 tail with that 700. Incredible set up.
2 Likes
Same spot in my case for both silk 850 / Enduro 700!
I finally got around to shimming the 152 silk tail today on fd, and it worked really well. Seems the enduroās weakness is low end, so Iām using bigger tails, but shimming for less drag was something I wanted to try. So far so good, started at 0.5Ā°.