Cant say much other than the 105 felt very comfortable going 20mph
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We can always rely on you for an objective review thanks Bryan. I’m currently winging the 130x/21x on a 36 M2. I’m interested in whether I should invest in the 110x, 90HA or Havoc 105 as my high-wind step down. I’m finding the range of the 130x is exceptional though. Also, any info on 32 v 36 M2 would be interesting. I still kite foil in light wind so the 36 has been working well for both disciplines.
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Did 3 runs with the 110 Florence today.
It is easier than the previous 110 HAX.
Maybe a touch less top end and speed, but average is better for me (110 HAX was too demanding to maintain a good pace)
There is a lot of flex in the HAX that I find great at high speed but which I dislike when I need power at low speed.
For winging you may not feel as much of an improvement since you should not pump as much as sup downwind. Same for lighter weight I guess.
Tried with KD15R with long FP and 21F.
21F has better low end, and turns better. More unstable in pitch but it disturb me only few kilometers then you get use to it.
15R pumps better at high speed
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I have owned the original 110hax and have the 90ha for winging. Here is my feedback:
- I found the lift for getting on foil slightly better than the 90 but not by much.
- The top speed is very similar. They are both fast wings.
- Maneuverability: In the domain, the 90 is significantly better. It feels very natural. Whereas, the 110 takes more time to turn, it feels like it has more inertia if that makes sense. Probably because of its width…
- Glide: In that domain, the 110 is better. However for winging, the glide of the 90 is plenty good for me.
- Stability: In that domain, the 90 is also significantly better. I found the 110 very sensitive to turbulences, especially going upwind. I often felt like I crashed for no good reasons.
I hope this helps. I also have my eyes on the Havocs… I am not sure which one to pick 
T-Nut - what is your weight? I am 87kg and ride the 120ha and 150hax. I was considering getting the 90ha for winging since I saw some people like it much better than the 120ha, but curious if I am too heavy for it! Also deciding between the 90ha and the new 110F or 121 havoc - so many choices!!
I am 73kg. I have not tried the 120ha so I don’t know how it compares with the 90ha. However, I bought the 121 havoc and tried it for the first time last weekend. I really like it so far! It fits nicely in my quiver between the 170ha & 90ha. Turning with it feels like riding a shortboard. I would definitely recommend it for winging. I hope this helps.
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I’m 87kg too. The 90HA is lots of fun to wing in 20knots and above.
Hey there
I heard about a new mast, something like 13-14mm and new tails for downwind racing.
Rumor ? Or anyone has info ?
Anyone been proning the Havocs more, with feedback? What tails do people generally like on Lift for prone? The carve series look ideal but their fuse lengths are so short, do people use the extenders all the time? The Florence rear looks like it might be better all around even though its designed for DW.
I’m an intermediate foiler so factor that into my feedback. I have all 4 Havoc wings and love the 92, 105, and 121(when the surf is really small) and ride those with either the Carve 26 or Carve with extender and they work good for me. I have the Florence tail as well but I haven’t paired it with the Havoc wings yet but I’ve did some DW shore runners and notice I preferred the Carve tails when wanting to do a lot of roundhouse turns. The Florence tail is a bit faster and looser but for more control through harder turns the Carve tails push through the turns better for me. I’ve only proned my Havoc 148 twice and both times rode the Carve 26 with extender because the surf was pretty small but the tail seemed fine for what I was doing.
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How is the 121 Havoc working out now that you another month of riding under your belt?
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The conditions were not great last month. I have only used it twice since. The main advantage of the 121 is its stability/forgiveness. It turns very well. Its disadvantage is its lack of glide compared with the HA wings. I like it a lot for winging. What conditions/riding style are you considering using this wing for?
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Demo’d a Lift Havoc 121 + 26 carve yesterday for the first time and it was one of the most fun sessions I’ve ever had. With the Unifoil P140 I have felt held back in carving with how steep I can lean. The low wingspan (74 cm) was exactly what I wanted in being able to roll steeper and not fall off and feel like the span was limiting anything.
It’s very fun on waves with steeper faces. You kind of have to pump and work your way to the steeper part of the wave when chipping in on a low AR wing like this before you can start carving around. The pumping was not great but it was better than I expected it to be. On my first wave I connected one and got another connection later in the session. It’s doable to connect when you really want it - like if the opportunity is a great wave, but for the most part I was having such good rides for the single waves that I would ride them all the way to shore and just try to pump back as much as I could and paddle the rest. If the connection wave wasn’t a good wave it wasn’t worth the pump effort. But these were tradeoffs I was expecting and am happy to make. The ease of shifting weight heelside to toeside when switching directions is super nice and basically what I have been wanting.
I think I am going to end up buying one, but with the Florence rear wing which has a 2.5" longer fuse than the Carve 26. I think this will make the pump and glide slightly better.
By the way does anyone know the difference in feel that a rear with upturned winglets Carve 26 vs no winglets Florence 21 has?
I’ve only demo’d the 121 one day, and only rode it with the 26 carve. But I’ve ridden the 26 carve and 21 Florence extensively with my other front wings.
Generally the 21 Florence has noticeable better glide, maybe slightly better pumping, and pretty different turning. It feels “slippery” in tight turns - a little bit like driving on ice. Easy to fishtail out if you try to hack the turn too tight, whereas the 26 carve feels like it really bites in and won’t let go. Florence also doesn’t seem to like to go all the way from one rail to the other in a continuous motion, I wind up drawing out the turn a little in the middle while the foil plane is flat.
I like them both a lot, to be clear, just different uses. 21 Florence is marketed as a DW tail and it definitely excels at that.
Any tail with upturned tips will be more stable in yaw. Tails that are flat will be less stable in yaw. Vertical portions on a tail seem to add more drag. Those should be the tradeoffs.
Gotcha, in that case I will probably stick with the Carve series then and maybe get an extender with it.
Thanks, do you know the difference in characteristics between upturned vs downturned rear wing tips? Progression tail vs Lift Carve for example?
Droop tips on a Cessna/Piper straight wing reduce drag at all speeds and lower the stall speed by delaying the formation of wingtip vortices which are most prevalent at higher angles of attack i.e. slow flight. You see droop tips on STOL kits for bush planes more than you do on jets. On a stabilizer those would be turned up since it’s an upside down wing.
Raised wingtips also help reduce drag by delaying vortices. On a plane you see those for high speed applications, usually swept winged jets. But the big takeaway I got from the UNI University video on tails is that downward facing tips on a stabilizer also give the pump more bite because it lessens the spanwise dispersion of water when we force the tail down.
And now that I’ve thought about it, droop tips- although they’d be upside down on a stabilizer- the droops on a STOL wing help contain the low pressure air during high angles of attack the same way Unifoil was describing their theory to stop spanwise flow during a pump.
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Glad to hear that you liked the 121. I would recommend the 21 flow if you want more pump and glide while maintaining control of your turns. The turning radius is bigger but it is a good tradeoff IMO.
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The 21 Flow feels too long, while the 26 Carve is too short—probably why extenders are so common. I picked up a limited run 26X Carve, which has a more practical fuse length. Lift really needs to improve their tail game. Anyone else feel the same?
P.S. I just ordered a 120 in HM. Bring on the OG!